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-   -   All you need to know about the M90 (https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=94325)

SteveMD 04-06-2009 03:21 PM

Cool. Maybe I can just run a bolt through the engine side, slap a big nut and washer on trans side to secure trans then attach bracket to the bolt and secure with a nut/lockwasher.

Can some one with Vadis see if the M90 and AW71 use the same rear drive shaft in the 940 b230ft?

I suspect they don't and am worried that the spline shaft on my rear DS may have bottomed out in the M90 front DS, possibly damaging the M90 output shaft bearing. I heard it happened to a US t-bricker.

If the M90 and AW71 rear DS are different part #'s and different lengths, Fred may want to put a caution about that on the first page of this article.

It may also be helpful to know how the M46/M47 rear DS's compare as some may be swapping M90's in place of those boxes. Didn't MrBorrie do that?

Steve940Estate 04-06-2009 03:40 PM

I had a look on my Vadis disc and they don't list the rear section of the propshaft seperately. I would have thought that if the splines are the same they are probably the same bit. The distance from the bearing carrier to the diff flange should be the same.

I had a ZF auto in my car and the propshaft rear end looked the same. I was going to swap the front ends over but that would have probably affected the balancing and way the splines had worn.

SteveMD 04-06-2009 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve940Estate (Post 2373755)
I had a look on my Vadis disc and they don't list the rear section of the propshaft seperately. I would have thought that if the splines are the same they are probably the same bit. The distance from the bearing carrier to the diff flange should be the same.

I had a ZF auto in my car and the propshaft rear end looked the same. I was going to swap the front ends over but that would have probably affected the balancing and way the splines had worn.

Thanks for checking. Do you mean the ZF front prop is the same length as the M90 front prop? The AW71 front prop is shorter than the M90 front prop which is why I sourced the M90 front prop from Foggyjames.

Steve940Estate 04-06-2009 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSteve (Post 2373761)
Thanks for checking. Do you mean the ZF front prop is the same length as the M90 front prop? The AW71 front prop is shorter than the M90 front prop which is why I sourced the M90 front prop from Foggyjames.

No the front is different, the M90 has a rubber doughnut coupling on it as well.

The rear section from the center bearing back looked the same on both as far as I could tell.

Perhaps the problem you have is that the propshaft isn't balanced properly now or the splines need to wear in a bit .

frpe82 04-06-2009 04:19 PM

Oh... I think I have got why you are having problems.

Please tell me exactly (in the order from gearbox to diff) what components you have.

Let me give you an example of my 940:

Gearbox
Output shaft with tri-arm
Rubber hardy disc
Shaft tri-arm
Shaft
Splines
Joint
Shaft
Joint
Flange yoke
Diff

On other applications/cars it may look like this:

Gearbox
Output shaft with flange
Flange yoke
Shaft
Splines
Joint
Shaft
Joint
Flange yoke
Diff

Some have a rubber hardy disc, and some don't.

There are also other setups that can work with the M90, but please tell me exactly what your setup is and I will tell you if it is right or not.

I aqm starting to suspect some stuff based on the fact that you say that the shaft is very compressed.

However, the shaft is very compressed on the M90 cars. And 9 times out of 10 it is almost impossible to get the shaft up/down from the gearbox output shaft. So that is something you should never worry about.

frpe82 04-06-2009 04:27 PM

The propeller shaft is also different depending on if you have a 4-door or 5-door (the rubber hardy disc setup is somewhat different but otherwise it is the same).

4-door cars M90 propeller shaft: 3520362
5-door cars M90 propeller shaft: 9143292

frpe82 04-06-2009 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve940Estate (Post 2373755)
I had a look on my Vadis disc and they don't list the rear section of the propshaft seperately.

I also looked that up and was going to post it. But since you did it, I didn't bother to repeat it.

I think it is strange that they don't list the part numbers for the separate rear and front shafts.

But anyway... the AW71L rear shaft is the same as the M90 rear shaft. I have seen it several times.

Steve940Estate 04-06-2009 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frpe82 (Post 2373818)
I also looked that up and was going to post it. But since you did it, I didn't bother to repeat it.

I think it is strange that they don't list the part numbers for the separate rear and front shafts.

But anyway... the AW71L rear shaft is the same as the M90 rear shaft. I have seen it several times.

Perhaps it's to do with the balancing. Not many garages would want the trouble of getting it done if the could just fit a whole propshaft, thats assuming they are balanced as one.

The propshaft is pretty compressed on my car thinking about it. There isn't enough movement to unhook the front end on it's own you have to take the rear end and center bearing mount off first.

SteveMD 04-06-2009 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frpe82 (Post 2373802)
Oh... I think I have got why you are having problems.

Please tell me exactly (in the order from gearbox to diff) what components you have.

Let me give you an example of my 940:

Gearbox
Output shaft with tri-arm
Rubber hardy disc
Shaft tri-arm
Shaft
Splines
Joint
Shaft
Joint
Flange yoke
Diff

On other applications/cars it may look like this:

Gearbox
Output shaft with flange
Flange yoke
Shaft
Splines
Joint
Shaft
Joint
Flange yoke
Diff

Some have a rubber hardy disc, and some don't.

There are also other setups that can work with the M90, but please tell me exactly what your setup is and I will tell you if it is right or not.

I aqm starting to suspect some stuff based on the fact that you say that the shaft is very compressed.

However, the shaft is very compressed on the M90 cars. And 9 times out of 10 it is almost impossible to get the shaft up/down from the gearbox output shaft. So that is something you should never worry about.

Hi, Fred,

Just a quick reply. I have the first setup in the car now. Not sure I will have time to get the car up and check things again until next week. (going out of town tomorrow evening).

Your and the other replies are helpful. I might need balancing but that's not the concern here.

Thanks,

Steve

SteveMD 04-06-2009 05:28 PM

Oh, by the way
 
To you guys who also found the front of the prop shaft hard to pull off the M90 tri-arm, was your rear axle at full droop? Mine was and my concern is that when the rear is at on-ground ride height, the rear prop shaft spline section might be bottoming out inside the front prop shaft.

Cheers,

steve

Steve940Estate 04-06-2009 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSteve (Post 2373898)
To you guys who also found the front of the prop shaft hard to pull off the M90 tri-arm, was your rear axle at full droop? Mine was and my concern is that when the rear is at on-ground ride height, the rear prop shaft spline section might be bottoming out inside the front prop shaft.

Cheers,

steve

I think I was supporting the back using axle stands under the axle so it ws pretty much at ride height. Probably would have been easier if it was at full droop though.

foggyjames 04-06-2009 07:14 PM

As far as I'm aware, all redblock (and diesel) boxes use the rubber guibo, and all live-axle 7/900s have the same rear half of the prop. Only the front is different. The two halves also appear to be indepedently balanced, and we have mixed and matched prop sections without a problem.

I can't see a problem with what you've done, Steve...US Steve that is, not UK Steve :rofl: Well...I'm sure what UK Steve has done is fine too....er...anyone got a spade? :rofl:

cheers

James

SteveMD 04-06-2009 07:26 PM

Thanks, Foggy. I will sleep a bit more soundly tonight. For you guys amusement, check out this pic of interior carnage post M90 install and drive home. (2 hours) I didn't want to mess with any wires until I was safely home :rofl: Yes, that's a reverse light switch in the ashtray door as the reverse light switch in the Aw71 failed some time ago as did the neutral safety switch.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3639/...2a88ea.jpg?v=0

SteveMD 04-06-2009 07:35 PM

BTW, here is MrBorrie's pic of his M90 and M46 prop shafts. It looks like the spline/yoke section of the M46 shaft 'might' be longer but determining that by the pic is hard due to camera angle and tape on the M90 spline/yoke section.

http://img113.imageshack.us/img113/8687/img0899.jpg

foggyjames 04-06-2009 08:54 PM

Well...that's curious. It DOES look longer...but...it's the same axle, and the same location for the bearing carrier, so it doesn't make sense for the rear section to be longer. Note that the M90 front prop section pictured appears to be missing its boot over the female spline section...which makes it look yet more odd.

cheers

James

Steve940Estate 04-07-2009 05:49 AM

Some cars had different center bearings. I'm not sure what the difference is though. I looked up the front yoke as it's got a part number and they all seemed to be the same.


I have just looked again and all of the front yokes I can find are the same part number 1340500.
I can't suggest anything else other than are there any differences in engine and gearbox mounting.

SteveMD 04-07-2009 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve940Estate (Post 2374820)
Some cars had different center bearings. I'm not sure what the difference is though. I looked up the front yoke as it's got a part number and they all seemed to be the same.


I have just looked again and all of the front yokes I can find are the same part number 1340500.
I can't suggest anything else other than are there any differences in engine and gearbox mounting.

Good to know. I won't get a chance to check the car until next week. It will stay parked until then as I will be out of town. Happy Easter, guys.

SteveMD 04-20-2009 07:55 AM

This weekend while trying to fit the AW71 exhaust bracket to the M90 (fail) I noticed something interesting re. the rubber trans mount. When I did the swap, I reused the AW71 crossmember with AW71 mount.

On Saturday, I decided to use the crossmember with mount Foggyjames included with the M90 he sent me 2+years ago. I noticed that the mount surface that contacts the trans sits about 3/4 inch higher than the AW71 mount. The crossmembers are the same, though.

I now think a 30mph driveline vibration is gone. Will test drive during lunch. Can someone with VADIS check to see if the AW71 and M90 trans mounts have different part numbers?

frpe82 04-20-2009 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrSteve (Post 2397603)
I now think a 30mph driveline vibration is gone. Will test drive during lunch. Can someone with VADIS check to see if the AW71 and M90 trans mounts have different part numbers?

They have the same part number.

Steve940Estate 04-20-2009 03:11 PM

I just had a quick look and found a similar looking mounting part number 1330831. This was fitted to b200e early 940's with AW gearboxes.
The M90 doesn't have any washer on the pin that goes through it the AW one does but the info seems a bit mixed up on the later 940 lists.
Perhaps there was another one.

frpe82 04-20-2009 03:31 PM

I had another look to investigate it further.

It seems like the older gearbox member had a different mount.

Problem solved.

SteveMD 04-22-2009 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frpe82 (Post 2398309)
I had another look to investigate it further.

It seems like the older gearbox member had a different mount.

Problem solved.

Yes, seems so. Car smoother. Going to check driveshaft halfs for possible bottoming out in spline section soon.

Janspeed 04-29-2009 01:44 PM

FYI: my new clutch setup: stock old style dogdish LH2.4 flywheel, 850R friction plate and Sachs race engineering pressureplate.
I put 3 washers (about 5mm) behind the pivot bolt. It works but the clutch disengages only after deep pedal travel. Maybe i should have put in some more washers?

the old stock turbo clutch was totally buggered, worn to the rivets after only 19kkm. And i do not ride the clutch, ever. It's just too weak for anything over 280-290Nm.

while the box was out i took the chance to change the reverse light switch (once the M90 is installed you can't get to it) , this switch is known to fail, mine never worked since i bought the car 4 years ago, now i actually have reversing lights. LOL.
The grip of the clutch is excelent, very nice to modulate. Kinda heavy to operate, female unfriendly i guess.
But it is not much heavier then the stock clutch of my BMW inline 6.
The loss of dual-massness manifests itself by a slightly rougher engine sound. The response to throttle inputs seems slightly more direct.
Overall: mission accomplished.

next: raise boost back up!

HansW 04-29-2009 04:54 PM

Dear members
janspeed:
clutch issue known and fixed -- we had this discussion earlier but in a nutshell:
Grind off 0.5 mm off the mating face of the flywheel and also grind off a bit in 45 deg angle on the inner part ( innere Kante der Andruckflaeche am Schwungrad eine 45 Grad phase abdrehen etwa 2,5 mm weit rein, so dass die Nieten welche die Belaege auf der Mitnehmerscheibe halten nicht auf der Schwungrad schleifen), so that the rivets dont touch the flywheel. (write me a pm and i can explain properly)
pivot balls can be exchanged betwenn M 46, M47 M90 and have different heights. but with my modifications to the flywheel I had to use the standard M 90 Pivot ball in the M90 set-up.
Driveshafts:
backpart always the same and to my knowledge balanced seperately.
front part M90: different length to all the others.
rubber-coupler: all the same

testhest 04-30-2009 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janspeed (Post 2415326)
while the box was out i took the chance to change the reverse light switch (once the M90 is installed you can't get to it) , this switch is known to fail, mine never worked since i bought the car 4 years ago, now i actually have reversing lights. LOL.

Congrats on the install of the new clutch.

I just want to mention that the switch can actually be changed without removing the M90.
Did it on mine about a year ago. Just lovered the gearbox enough to get a spanne on the switch. Not a lot of room to move around in, but it can be done.


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