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Old 10-24-2012, 04:42 PM   #1
haltechsupra
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Thumbs up Limit of fuel map on 2.4lh chips questions...

I have beepee chips and lost art of chips for my 945.. Wondering how much boost either can support with a to4e 57 trim turbo?

Or rather i should say when do the fuel maps run out and stay at fixed pulsewidth? Only have a functioning narrow band, wide band needs cords and adapters(arg innovate, usb to 9 pin to 2.5mm jack madness makes me sick) to work. Later it will.

My 945 is a 1993 turbo, Mods are , 480cc injectors, precision power 3 1/2 thick mk4 supra intercooler, fluidyne rad with flexillite twin electrics, aw71 with accumulator mod, upgraded cooler, 4.10 lsd, STOCK 93 n/a regina block (rods- pistons- valves-headgasket-bolts)and head, slotted a cam, cartech blow off valve, right now running one "lost art of" fuel chip, unchippable ign ecu. And 025 amm. MSD coil. 30psi boost gauge.

Now, i have a lo flo muffler on and boost is at 20. just trying to see what is safe. Im revving to 7100rpm. I have been running 25psi with a straight pipe, but i got concerned, having never fully winding it out. So i did 5 second bursts at all rpm incriments. It feels nasty (thus the concern), The china bay t3/t04e serial # tb01206070 really comes to life above 20 psi. I think the A cam really likes it at 25psi as well. Lag is more of an issue with muffler on, so i have a exhaust leak that i create to have best of both worlds.. I feel like much more boost would bring the front off the ground in second. Has anyone done this on the board with a redblock in a wagon?!!!



All this is good, but it would be good to know where the danger zone is.. 235x45 x19 are now crying. At 25psi the wagon is very easily "driftable". With an automatic...

The beepee chip will not work with this combo . I will get the right combo soon to try it out. Thanks to all that contributed to make these chips.. Amazing difference!
Kris Weldy




Last edited by haltechsupra; 10-24-2012 at 05:45 PM..
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:56 PM   #2
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Get a wideband hooked up and your injectors will be more of your limiting factor. 350+whp is about the most I have seen made on lh but who's to say you can not make more with the proper supporting mods.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:04 PM   #3
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Thumbs up Limits?

Wideband is hooked up, just need to get correct cable and software and then i will know for sure, until then i just had hoped someone had been there to know the limits. Before I jump clean accross them!

Just cleaned out my email from tb and saw you emailed me a while ago about my potentiometer trick and supra injectors on 2.2 lh back in the day. Fun stuff. Small world.
Thanks for your help!

Kris Weldy
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:53 PM   #4
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Anyone that doesnt have a wideband should not be subject to boost. They just arent ready for it. Get your wideband back from your Daddy.


Look like a fool with your wideband not around.

My guess is you dont have a modded ign chip either.
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Last edited by diponyou; 10-24-2012 at 10:41 PM..
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:29 PM   #5
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Because I have been lagging on sending him a new one......
And I think here on tb I have the quickest car on lh .......so I might be the closest to the limit....
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Old 10-24-2012, 10:29 PM   #6
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Because I have been lagging on sending him a new one......
And I think here on tb I have the quickest car on lh .......so I might be the closest to the limit....
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:13 AM   #7
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cue norway

you need more injector dude.
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Old 10-25-2012, 02:35 AM   #8
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You should not be running that much boost with that sized injectors. That size could not even spport my miata's 1.8 at 3 psi let alone my volvo with a t04e. Time for injector upgrade and ems as well.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:10 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thelostartof View Post
Because I have been lagging on sending him a new one......
And I think here on tb I have the quickest car on lh .......so I might be the closest to the limit....
I'm after you, buddy ;)
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Old 10-25-2012, 07:55 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diponyou View Post
Anyone that doesnt have a wideband should not be subject to boost. They just arent ready for it. Get your wideband back from your Daddy.


Look like a fool with your wideband not around.

My guess is you dont have a modded ign chip either.

My 945 is a 1993 turbo, Mods are , 480cc injectors, precision power 3 1/2 thick mk4 supra intercooler, fluidyne rad with flexillite twin electrics, aw71 with accumulator mod, upgraded cooler, 4.10 lsd, STOCK 93 n/a regina block (rods- pistons- valves-headgasket-bolts)and head, slotted a cam, cartech blow off valve, right now running one "lost art of" fuel chip, unchippable ign ecu. And 025 amm. MSD coil. 30psi boost gauge.
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Old 10-25-2012, 08:34 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadDog_945 View Post
I'm after you, buddy ;)
Bring it..... I love competition..... makes it worth it to try to go faster...
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:14 PM   #12
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Hey dip chit , why dont you copy what i said to you and change a few words, Obviously your creative muscle has blown a gasket. Maybe your face has overridden your butt with smell pouring out.. Silly communication hole soaked in dookie again..

I need to get software from muh Dead Daddy.

I remember the haters saying i was running too much boost back in 98 and that a redblock would never run at 26psi, even though i had a standalone .. _shrugs_ silly kids!

TLAO , whats yours dynoing right now? Id love to say im after you, but im willing to bet your car is lighter.
Kris

Last edited by haltechsupra; 10-25-2012 at 04:23 PM.. Reason: too legit
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:22 PM   #13
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I dont see how thats not enough injector guys... I have run an 012 amm for a year with stock injectors at 20ish. NO CHIP.. Now i have a chip and 480cc in jectors. My car must be way different. You really should smell all the fuel after a hard boost at 25! Dam near peggs my narrow band at full gallop. I am also running small a/r on turbo, this isnt a holset fellas!! Or a T70, which i ran 550cc injectors on my supra at 22. Sounds like someone needed a chip on the miata. I think the miata ran lean because it didnt have the pulsewidth from stock ecu..
What injectiods you firing Lost Art of?
Whats the tuning difference with ignition chip, timing pulled out at full boost?
Kris

Last edited by haltechsupra; 10-25-2012 at 04:27 PM..
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:35 PM   #14
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Once I get it running and working I will re-dyno. On paper I should be near 350whp give or take. ( per another thread/post I did 301whp when trapping 105/106mph. I am currently trapping 112/113mph. Most go by the 10whp=1mph in the 1/4 mile. So a gain of ~6mph should be at least 50whp gain.). I am interested in seeing Sam's dyno as his car did nearly the same as me 12@112 but with a very different setup but peak power should be near same.

My engine is also beat to hell and would pick up a few HP from a fresh block/rings.

Running a ton of boost doesn't always mean power. Would be interesting to see what you are making as the stock intake and exhaust manifold will be holding you back big time. Most people see a 20+ whp gain when ditching a ported 90+ exhaust and a custom intake has proven 17+ whp gain. If my memory serves me correctly I was trapping 102mph with the 90+ and holset @20psi. I put on a thin wall custom header and peaked around 105/106mph at the same boost with that being the only change, both setups had the 3.5" downpipe. So that 3+ mph gain should tell you about how much whp that new setup gained. Many people hit a wall around 280whp with a ported 90+. I hate to say it but a j pipe setup with a proper twin scroll turbo might flow better than a 90+. Would be interesting to see a before and after dyno with the two setups.

My car felt fast with the holset on the 90+ but once I put on a custom header it was night and day difference.

Even tho people have made 400whp on those manifold it was with a very well prep'd head and a lot of other work.

Last edited by thelostartof; 10-25-2012 at 05:52 PM..
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:59 PM   #15
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Has anyone made 350ish power with stock manifolds? What are my options as far as manifolds-cost? That intercooler on mine made a heck of a difference as well as the radiator, trans cooler, and accumulator mod. Every supporting mod has helped and your chip was thick icing on the cake.
I know people are useing larger throttle bodies, is that the only restriction on the intake side? I'd like to think im above 300 right now.. But my butt could be talking chit. Gotta track it or dyno it. I know out of the hole its gonna suck, so i will probably dyno it. Got owned by a dually last night off the line, with full 5 inch exhaust. Made me Think of Georges Evo At Alamo autosports when we dynoed 835fwhp , he had to have 5 inch exhaust for that nasty spl57 hks .
He caught me by surprise, other wise i wouldve boost launched. Diesels run real hard here in Houston. He chirped all four in second in his dodge 2500!!! And it was an auto!! I was coming by him when he slammed on his brakes..lol. He had alot of work done, 75% of them here do. He had some rear diff cooler on the back too.. I only saw if for two seconds lol.
My girl said its hard to breathe in my car when i hit boost, feels like someone punching you in the lungs.

Anyway hoping for at least 300 wheel.
Kris

Last edited by haltechsupra; 10-25-2012 at 06:05 PM..
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:03 PM   #16
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Like I said 400whp has been done on stock (ported) manifolds. A larger tb can help but the runner length and Plenum size and shape are what is hurting it. Being a +t with higher cr you should at least be near 270+ whp.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:08 PM   #17
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Stock intake blows. Erik got 14whp just swapping to a b21f manifold.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:12 PM   #18
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Thumbs up

OOps didnt see the 400hp part. Yeah it really feels like alot more than 300, and ive hurt many bmw 335i , they are high 13 second cars..
But anyone can miss a shift or whatever.... Im telling ya at 25 psi with straight exhaust this thing is hands down Fast! Amazing difference between 20 psi and 25. Also another thing that is hurting me is stock exhaust diameter. Stock dp. Where do i find the 3 inch?

And do you really think that my injectors are too small for what im trying to do? What are you running injector wise? Adjustable cam would help a ton on the bottom. The A cam doesnt breathe well until 3800, then it just doesnt stop pulling with a hi flowing turbo.
Kris
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:16 PM   #19
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I make/sell downpipes/exhausts.....when I have time to make them.... I will be doing another batch soon I hope.

I am running 75lb with my current setup and even that is still overkill now.

These engines make stupid amounts of torque that can make it feel like more HP than it is. The a cam is also semi holding you back as there are much more wild cams out there that really wake up these motors to make good peak HP numbers.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:16 PM   #20
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"Stock intake blows. Erik got 14whp just swapping to a b21f manifold."

Thats impressive!

But how much gain all the way across the rpm range is what im looking at . I dont want peak power to be 14hp more but loose 20 before peak power and after, you know what i mean. Id have to review the dyno data. Torque is an issue too. I made more power with a na intake on mk3 supra too! It made 305 hp at 7psi!!! I guess its true to say that a great turbo setup is a really built on a highly efficient normally aspirated setup.
Kris.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:21 PM   #21
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Hmmm , you gotta tell me more!!!! I need the 3 inch exhaust, no doubt! Pm me with prices please for cam and exhaust to more suit me. I want a cam with enough bottom end to line lock my 235 wide z rated tires. She refuses to right now , only building 4.5 psi at most and pushing the car. ( And i put new pads on the back..alot of the reason..)

But i want that A cam, or better top end. And i dont want to adjust valves to get there. Really not concerned with peak power, im more concerned with a larger power spectrum through the rev limit. Peak power proves little to nothing on a dyno. Ive seen many Dyno queens get eat up at the track because the power wasnt there- through out the complete rev range.. I.e. more useable power.

Thanks! Kris.

When can i expect a box of goodies Mike?
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:26 PM   #22
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comon guys! you can go bigger then 75/85/95 whatever lbs, all it requires is lambda feedback being disabled and some fuel map tuning. It's not hard I promise! I ran 120s @ 3 bar on pump gas on LH and still got 30 mpg on the highway!

so please! lets put away that misconception.

but for serious dude, 480's are too small. you might want to also look into a fuel pump upgrade too. 550+cc minimum.

don't get into all this "properly sizing injectors for the limitations of stock LH" garbage. you're cutting yourself short. get in there and get to it, otherwise you're gonna run too small of an injector for lambda's sake and lean out and blow your stuff up.

ALSO YOU NEED A WIDEBAND BEFORE YOU START ANY OF THIS
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:27 PM   #23
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Save up some coin and have nathin build you a intake/header. That should have you easily over 300
I would say get some bigger injectors. I cant imagine you would be at 300hp right now. I could be wrong though.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:38 PM   #24
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Years ago before most of you someone posted up a 300whp dyno(might of been 280whp) on 42lb injectors....... few believed it...and heck even driving the car and tuning it (on ms a year after said dyno) I still do not know how I feel about it.
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Old 10-25-2012, 06:39 PM   #25
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a million times at wideband comment_ya got me on that one, now get me on this one.. J/K

Thats some serious fuel. I dont know if i really need that much. Im not going for 600hp, im more of a 350ish type guy with this car. I daily drive it. Right now its got a stupid flooding issue while starting every once in a while, did it 4 times last night back to back. could be the 025 amm or no ign chip.. _shrugs_ but it has A issue that needs to be solved, before i even think of going bigger injector. My mpg is waaaaaaaaaaaay down, maybe at 12 or 13 miles to gallon, i know it cant be that lean!!! I attribute this to no ign chip and that 025 amm as well. When i get an 012 on there and the ign chip, i think everything will get along better. My spark plug footprint is clean/ brownish on electrode and dark black at the base, indicating a ton of fuel at wot. My exhaust is dark black. When i ran open pipe with a dump over the axle, it left black spots everywhere when it idled and the exhaust gas hit the ground. It smells like fuel all the time, Like an old carbed muscle car starting up in the cold, not one leak. My narrowband says i have too much fuel at idle and at full boost.. But i know how they can lie...

Really i dont plan to run more than 25psi and i dont plan to make 400hp. I just want to go fast and be relaible. And not have to unplug injectors to start the thing.
Kris.
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