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just return from dyno...only 255ps :-(

Nikolaos244Turbo

Nikolaos244Turbo

Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2007
Location
Hellas(Greece)
Hello guys,
long story short:
B21ET engine,0.5mm overbored, 90+ manifold,3" exhaust from downpipe to back, 60mm intercooler pipes, Garrett T04E 53mm inducer with .50 AR,managed to achieve 225ps running on K-Jetronic and 2008 decided to install Megasquirt 1 v3.0 dizzy based.
HKS EVC 5 boost controller and ipd turbo cam have been installed.
Ran very good untill 2012 when I left the car at the backyard sitting for 9 years.
Last year I resurrected it and took the decision to run speeduino with a 36-1 trigger wheel and wasted spark on a VW Golf coil pack.
Today went to dyno...first run had just 1.3bar and 233ps and 42kg/m of torque
Second run and 1.6bar overboost-1.3 untl redline showed 255ps and 45.5kg/m torque
Starts and runs great-way better than MS1,has a lot of torque but...I expected a bit over 300ps to be honest :-(
What do you think?
<a href="https://ibb.co/gybWP1w"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/gybWP1w/received-503660654615565.jpg" alt="received-503660654615565" border="0"></a>
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Ditch the stock intake, that's your choke. Also the .5 AR might be a little restrictive for that power level, that might be why your power is dropping at the higher rpm's. Are the valve springs upgraded?
 
That's kind of what I would expect for a low-compression, 2.1L, 8v, 4cylinder engine.

Your boost control is going to be limited by the crappy internal wastegate... have you tried porting the wastegate hole in the turbine housing? Or perhaps tried a better wastegate housing? I can't tell what you have on the car now, but somethinglike the atpturbo piece might give you some more breathing room without the boost spiking.

Sorry, but if you want that 300hp number, you're going to need more that 18psi for the entire run to get there... You have forged pistons in the b21et correct? How conservative is your ignition timing?
 
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Swedbrick said:
Ditch the stock intake, that's your choke. Also the .5 AR might be a little restrictive for that power level, that might be why your power is dropping at the higher rpm's. Are the valve springs upgraded?
Click to expand...
On a additional budget of 300-400? what do you suggest me to do?Replace the compressor side of turbo or replace the intake manifold?
 
740atl said:
That's kind of what I would expect for a low-compression, 2.1L, 8v, 4cylinder engine.

Your boost control is going to be limited by the crappy internal wastegate... have you tried porting the wastegate hole in the turbine housing? Or perhaps tried a better wastegate housing? I can't tell what you have on the car now, but somethinglike the atpturbo piece might give you some more breathing room without the boost spiking.

Sorry, but if you want that 300hp number, you're going to need more that 18psi for the entire run to get there... You have forged pistons in the b21et correct? How conservative is your ignition timing?
Click to expand...

No port at wastegate hole....the turbine house where I bought it told me that can spool up to 2 bar without problem :-/
Ignition set at 23? up to redline on full boost,no knocking at all-using 100 octane gasoline
 
I have no experience with aftermarket intakes for 8v's (or 16'vs for that matter). I've never seen any before/after dyno plots going from the stock b230f intake to something like what klracing offers. I'd like to think that a better intake buys you more top end but, like I said, I've never seen the data. The closest I've seen to a before/after was the swap from a b230 intake to the b21f intake where the power did increase by a bit, but I can't seem to locate the dyno plot in a google search.

By the time you're done with a klracing purchase (intake, fuel rail, throttle body, fittings), you're well past 400euros. If you're not knocking at all, you could just twist the screw on your boost controller and hit it again. Won't cost you anything at that point.

EDIT To put it in perspective, to get a b21ft (8v, K cam, t40e 50 trim, with a 90+ manifold and b230 intake... stock stall aw71 from a 14 flat second quarter mile to a 12.87 quarter mile, I had to give it 25psi boost (30 spike down low) and a 75 shot of nitrous. Would I like to have bigger valves and a better cam, and a better intake and a better exhaust and a better turbo? Well yes. I'd like all those things... but playing this game as cheap as I am (and many of us are), the big ticket items are sometimes too... well they just cost too much and some performance done cheaply is better than all the performance done expensively.
 
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Thanks for replying first guys.
Could the pressure drop cause be the soft spring of the actuator?Maybe if I replace it with a stiffer one,could hold pressure up to 6.500rpm?
 
What boost pressure is the controller set to?

By guess is the wastegate is getting pushed open, and moving to a stiffer one will help . On a somewhat similar sized turbo, a 15psi actuator couldn?t hold over ~24psi/1.6 bar no matter how much preload there was. I switched to a 22psi/1.5bar actuator and now I can get upwards of 30psi/2bar with the boost controller. Without a boost controller, the lowest it goes is 18psi/1.2bar.

Also, with the 0.5 (0.48?) AR housing, you?re going to really limit the top end HP.
 
There's something mechanically wrong here. The ipd cam should be making peak power at around the 5400-5500 range, roughly. The rapid drop at 5000 maybe points to valve springs or something like that.
What's the intercooler?

If you look at redblockpowered's dyno sheet from a week ago, he made 234 wheel with what at face value looks to be a simpler setup. He uses an ENEM V15T cam which is similar and it made peak power around the 5200-5300 rpm point for all runs except the one shown, and the engine is about 10% larger.

The 255ps you managed, I think, is probably pretty close to what I would expect, but I don't like the way the curve looks.
 
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1. I set A pressure to 1.3 bar and B pressure full clockwise(maxed). It boosts up to 1.6 bar and pulls hard but then boost is dropping and as result power as well...both my programmer and the dyno guy told me that if boost continues 1.5-1.6 up to redline,280-290 ps would not be a problem....
2. The actuator is a 0.8 bar comes from Garrett,not adjustable though...have to find a stiffer one to try
3. valve springs were been replaced before about 10.000km with oem but before with Megasquirt I had good performance and engine was revving up to 7.000 without hesitation
 
Not part of your current concern, however the wiring you have here is a nightmare - I hope you are going to fix it before you do develop issues

Screen-Shot-2022-10-10-at-7-20-40-PM.png
 
shoestring said:
There's something mechanically wrong here. The ipd cam should be making peak power at around the 5400-5500 range, roughly. The rapid drop at 5000 maybe points to valve springs or something like that.
What's the intercooler?
Click to expand...

This suggests a restriction to me, given it's dropping of suddenly. So either housing, intercooler, or intake. Looking elsewhere the 0.48 should support 300whp, but the 0.63 is better according to the dsm crowd. So that would suggest intake/intercooler?

Nikolaos244Turbo said:
3. valve springs were been replaced before about 10.000km with oem but before with Megasquirt I had good performance and engine was revving up to 7.000 without hesitation
Click to expand...

Where the valve springs okay at 7k with that amount of boost also pushing them open?
 
A better foto of the dynograph- notice that torque drop is where the boost drop appears...
From 1.6bar to 1.25 up to 6.000...
<a href="https://ibb.co/Lxff3BY"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/Lxff3BY/20221011-123653.jpg" alt="20221011-123653" border="0"></a>

and the engine bay, though I have things to relocate, had no time while testing it...
<a href="https://ibb.co/tXwnwzw"><img src="https://i.ibb.co/tXwnwzw/20221011-123156.jpg" alt="20221011-123156" border="0"></a>

Could anyone tell me what kind of stiffer valve springs should I use and where to find them?
 
if you're losing that much boost you need to adjust the settings on the boost controller to more aggressively try and and maintain... or absent that you may need a stiffer wastegate spring (i.e. higher boost setting with the controller off). having a larger turbine housing wouldn't be a bad idea either, but I'd bet the big issue in terms of boost control right now is a weak wastegate spring unable to handle the demands.
 
linuxman51 said:
if you're losing that much boost you need to adjust the settings on the boost controller to more aggressively try and and maintain... or absent that you may need a stiffer wastegate spring (i.e. higher boost setting with the controller off). having a larger turbine housing wouldn't be a bad idea either, but I'd bet the big issue in terms of boost control right now is a weak wastegate spring unable to handle the demands.
Click to expand...

Already have ordered Forge adjustable wastegate actuator.Will set boost controller off and will see (fingers crossed)

Want also to replace the valve springs.Due to customs cost is been to much to order from US so I found at KL racing from Sweden. Those "39kg" will be adequate to ipd cam and 1.7bar boost?
 
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Swedbrick said:
Kgtrimning has these I'd suggest assuming standard valves, slightly discounted and fast shipping:)
https://www.kgtrimning.org/trimning-special/b23b230b234-mfl/topplock-mm/svf1319b230.html
Click to expand...

Those are a stiff spring with an aluminum retainer. You'd want to replace the retainers every few years, they tend to crack where the outer spring sits.

The single "39kg" KL-Racing springs will be fine. The KL Racing double springs are also a decent setup, and a better value in my opinion.

https://shop.klracing.se/sv/artiklar/dubbla-ventilfjadrar-volvo-8v.html
https://shop.klracing.se/sv/artikla...l-volvo-8v-dubbelfjader-for-112mm-ventil.html
https://shop.klracing.se/sv/artiklar/underlaggsbricka-for-ventilfjadrar.html
 
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