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Old 09-18-2022, 09:29 PM   #1
90volvo
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Default What needs changed turbo or conv.

My Volvo 240 mods. Share my 1/4 times and seeking advice which way to go.
Ported head with o.s. valves all new springs etc. Dont by culberro done an excellent job.
`RSI Stage 3 camshaft adv. 4 degrees.
-Kjet intake with double plenum
-NPR intercooler
-2.5 diameter i.c. piping
-Ported 90+ manifold
-GT3071 Fleabay turbo but not the cheapest
-3 inch exhaust
-GM 4L60e beefed up.
-TS conv. advertised at 4000 does about 2300 on footbrake
-3.73 gears with G40
-245/40/17 Nitto Gen3 drag radial
-Microsquirt ECU
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++
-60ft 2.75
-330 ft 6.54
-1/8 ET 9.42/84.54mph
1000ft 11.93/98.10
1/4 mile 14.03/107.89



---- I know the conv. is way tight and or turbo to big. I can do one or the other. But cant afford to do both. Plus the tranny is a pain to pull. Like to hear other options. How much launch control would help? How to with MS? Tune is probably off some, but on the rich side. If anything this be used as example why you have to have the right conv.
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Last edited by 90volvo; 09-19-2022 at 05:31 PM.. Reason: correct error
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Old 09-18-2022, 09:54 PM   #2
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Yeah, you have a combo of parts that’s fighting each other.

I’d sell that RSI cam and drop a IPD Turbo cam in there. The IPD cam isn’t a massive cam, but it works so well.
The turbo you have isn’t big by any stretch of the imagination either.
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Head work: https://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=349975

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Last edited by culberro; 09-18-2022 at 10:47 PM..
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Old 09-18-2022, 10:51 PM   #3
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I'll trade you an ipd turbo cam for that Cam. I need a less mild cam
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Old 09-18-2022, 11:38 PM   #4
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Trap speed is almost 108mph! Not bad. Same with 60ft times. I remember when I first had my 740 T, with (only) an exhaust cutout and boost controller I was able to hit 13.9 but that was well under 108mph. My 60ft times were even a bit better. Sometimes less is more but I would imagine to maybe play around with the stall speed, turbocharger and camshaft (as previously mentioned)

-I'd want to stall as high as possible (and/or 4.10s)
-Maybe try the Ipd cam or play with cam timing
-And maybe a better turbo (and/or bigger) plus another exhaust manifold external wastegate?

There are too many variables at play to really know... I'd love to be there at the track though! I miss those days. ;)

Good luck!
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Old 09-18-2022, 11:40 PM   #5
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What motor is this btw? B230ft from a 940?
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Old 09-18-2022, 11:53 PM   #6
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Sub 2 second 60ft is good, but that is with drag radials. 9.4 second 1/8th seems slow. I was doing that with just a 15G on street tires and some boost at about high 70's MPH with mid-2 second 60ft.
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Old 09-19-2022, 02:52 AM   #7
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Porting the OEM exh manifold also is counter productive in building boost at lower rpm.
Volvo designed it as it was to be able to build boost as quickly as possible.


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Old 09-19-2022, 10:43 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VolvoGuy123 View Post
What motor is this btw? B230ft from a 940?
Yes out of a Volvo 940T. Just so others know, Im not bragging about these times. lol. Thats why I am asking for advice. My son has 240 with K cam and 19T turbo with chips. He runs 13.70s, I should be able to smoke him. But cant quite run him down. Thanks
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Old 09-19-2022, 03:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by 90volvo View Post
Yes out of a Volvo 940T. Just so others know, Im not bragging about these times. lol. Thats why I am asking for advice. My son has 240 with K cam and 19T turbo with chips. He runs 13.70s, I should be able to smoke him. But cant quite run him down. Thanks
No, we understand. That was the point of bringing up my 740T that ran similar times to your sons 240. Sometimes less is more with these engines. After I hit about 13.4 with the td04hl turbos and different cams, etc I too hit a wall. Without a big snail and some major airflow improvements up top its hard to crack much more without some good dyno tuning.

Do you have access to a dyno?
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Old 09-19-2022, 03:39 PM   #10
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Don't underestimate those 19/20t turbos though! The td04h still gets my 940 moving like hell once the fall temps settle in! I must be making a good 300 (crank) hp atleast right now. From bottom end to top end, shes pretty quick. But my motor also has perfect compression at 140k (and a lifetime of synthetics)
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Old 09-19-2022, 03:43 PM   #11
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Maybe try swapping on a 19/20T, IPD cam and see what happens? I'm all for watching a progression thread on this car! Love to see what differences certain variables and combos make! Keep us posted.
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Old 09-19-2022, 04:59 PM   #12
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Love the 60 time. I could never get below 2 seconds with the stock stall.
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Old 09-19-2022, 05:32 PM   #13
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Love the 60 time. I could never get below 2 seconds with the stock stall.
Sorry typo error. IT was 2.7 - 60ft time. Terrieble. Thats trying to footbrake it as high as I could.
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Old 09-19-2022, 05:51 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by 90volvo View Post
Yes out of a Volvo 940T. Just so others know, Im not bragging about these times. lol. Thats why I am asking for advice. My son has 240 with K cam and 19T turbo with chips. He runs 13.70s, I should be able to smoke him. But cant quite run him down. Thanks
I would of thought for sure your car was faster. Very interesting. I’m interested in which route you take as well.
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Old 09-19-2022, 06:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by culberro View Post
Yeah, you have a combo of parts that’s fighting each other.

I’d sell that RSI cam and drop a IPD Turbo cam in there. The IPD cam isn’t a massive cam, but it works so well.
The turbo you have isn’t big by any stretch of the imagination either.
Yes. A million times yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjaybeeze View Post
Porting the OEM exh manifold also is counter productive in building boost at lower rpm.
Volvo designed it as it was to be able to build boost as quickly as possible.


Regards
Jaybee
Depends. If it's port-matched, it makes sense. We need pics

Quote:
Originally Posted by VolvoGuy123 View Post
Trap speed is almost 108mph! Not bad. Same with 60ft times. I remember when I first had my 740 T, with (only) an exhaust cutout and boost controller I was able to hit 13.9 but that was well under 108mph. My 60ft times were even a bit better. Sometimes less is more but I would imagine to maybe play around with the stall speed, turbocharger and camshaft (as previously mentioned)

-I'd want to stall as high as possible (and/or 4.10s)
-Maybe try the Ipd cam or play with cam timing
-And maybe a better turbo (and/or bigger) plus another exhaust manifold external wastegate?

There are too many variables at play to really know... I'd love to be there at the track though! I miss those days. ;)

Good luck!
108 is pretty damn good. Should be good for 12s with decent traction. I'm in a similar boat where I can't break 14s with my car with a very similar trap speed.

OP, you need to set timing to whatever gets you the highest level of VE at the broadest powerband. How is the car behaving? What are you doing when launching? Why did you pick your cam advance? At what RPM is the trans stalling? How much traction do you have off the line?
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Old 09-19-2022, 06:20 PM   #16
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The behaving, a dog off the line then about 3/4 way threw 1st the turbo comes alive. When I shift to 2nd tires break loose a little and takes off superfast. Pulls super hard all the way to the finish line. I hate to change turbo, I would say some tuning on the low end might help. In my young days I drag raced a windsor ford and we would lock the timing at 36 degrees. I notice nobody does that with redblocks figured there was a reason. I can switch cams.
Launching? Holding the brake as hard as I can and reving the highest I can without pushing threw the lights. Which about 2000
Cam? I knew the cam was a little big at the time I was going to go with a T5 but changed my mind and went with the auto. I advanced it to help with lowend power
Traction? Plenty of traction.
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Old 09-19-2022, 06:35 PM   #17
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Oh ****…. Yeah that’s not great. Have you tried hitting it off the line with a 50 shot or have you investigated launch control to get the turbo spooling?
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Old 09-19-2022, 06:58 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 90volvo View Post
The behaving, a dog off the line then about 3/4 way threw 1st the turbo comes alive. When I shift to 2nd tires break loose a little and takes off superfast. Pulls super hard all the way to the finish line. I hate to change turbo, I would say some tuning on the low end might help. In my young days I drag raced a windsor ford and we would lock the timing at 36 degrees. I notice nobody does that with redblocks figured there was a reason. I can switch cams.
Launching? Holding the brake as hard as I can and reving the highest I can without pushing threw the lights. Which about 2000
Cam? I knew the cam was a little big at the time I was going to go with a T5 but changed my mind and went with the auto. I advanced it to help with lowend power
Traction? Plenty of traction.
Having it advanced so much could make it a dog off the line. The converter stall is way too tight as well. If anything, the auto trans should work better than a manual in terms of getting the turbo nice and loaded up.

As for ignition advance map, yeah, the OHC 8v heads don't work at all like the pushrod V8 stuff. Turbos also make the whole affair more complex. I'd have the timing map looked at. That turbo with that engine should net you at least 1 bar of boost by 3500 rpm in 3rd gear (1:1 ratio). The RSI cam isn't all that aggressive either.
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Old 09-20-2022, 01:38 PM   #19
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There is a group buy gong on right now for Enem Cams. I'd suggest a V15T or even a V16T.

Way back when tuning my Porsche 356 using the factory timing map. There is a small jump in the advance curve to help the engine get the car off the line. It's at about 1500 rpm and smooths back out above 2k rpms. Maybe this approach would help with getting things going?
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Old 09-20-2022, 02:18 PM   #20
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The gearing may not be ideal either. 17 inch wheels behind a transmission intended for a V8...

You could get smaller wheels or change the rear axle ratio.

2.7 second 60ft isn't good.
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Old 09-20-2022, 03:35 PM   #21
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I have some smaller tire and wheels I can try. Ill have kenny look at my tune. Ill try put cam back to zero and see what happen then play with timing.
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Old 09-20-2022, 03:50 PM   #22
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The gearing may not be ideal either. 17 inch wheels behind a transmission intended for a V8...

You could get smaller wheels or change the rear axle ratio.

2.7 second 60ft isn't good.
What are you talking about? The 4L60E has a 3:1 first gear.
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Old 09-20-2022, 04:06 PM   #23
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can you build any boost at all on the foot brake? maybe try the sloppy spool mod, lol pinout is different on a 60e but it should work
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Old 09-20-2022, 04:09 PM   #24
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can you build any boost at all on the foot brake? maybe try the sloppy spool mod, lol pinout is different on a 60e but it should work
I'm sure he can if he pulls all the advance out at converter stall RPM!
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Old 09-20-2022, 09:35 PM   #25
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245/40R17 is actually a bit smaller tire than a 205/55R16. I shoulda paid more attention. I was in tranny class.

I'm getting a little more practice pulling apart the 4L60:






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