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Old 05-08-2013, 09:23 AM   #1
brickdaddy
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Default waking up the b18 in my 65 122s

i am planning on doing some work to the b18 in my 65 122s project. i ran a comp test and got 165-170 on all 4 so the bottom end is pretty tight still, so im leaving it alone. i am planning on doing a manual swap w an m41 if i can source one for a decent price somewhere, or an m40 if not. i'm planning on getting a b20E head, for the bigger valves, and plugging the injector holes w freeze plugs. i also want to find a good cam for it. i was thinking about going with the isky torque cam they sell at ipd since im not planning on revving past 6k and will mostly be using this as my dd/ running around car. if anyone has better suggestions as to a head, cam, or other performance mods for a dd please lemme know. thanks

ps- i am planning on running the stock su-hs6 carbs unless theres something better out there?
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:08 AM   #2
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IMO the Isky torque cam is more suited to automatic transmission cars. The Isky 'street performance' cam (W-71), or the OEM 'D' cam are both very nice and don't need revs over 6000 rpm to work well.

There are good parts to the B20E head, but will it be 'mushroomed' out over the top of the bore - i.e. the combustion chamber being wider on the sides than the bore is? That might not be a good thing.

You can, of course, bore the block out to use B20 pistons. More displacement is usually a good thing, I did that once on a 122's motor and the results were nice.

HS6 carbs are still perfectly fine for a lightly warmed up B18. You might benefit from some different needles, but I'd defer to people who know more about that. There are different carbs out there, some are better for certain things, but the SU's are perfectly fine and dandy for your situation. just make sure they're tuned correctly, and the throttle shafts are nice and snug in the carb bodies (air leaks confound the tuning process).
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:32 AM   #3
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I've got your M41 if you want it. Ill send PM.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:45 AM   #4
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Try to get the dual downpipe and exhaust manifold from an FI car. Better flow from what I understand.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:49 AM   #5
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/\ /\ /\ - Good point. If you have an old style single downpipe manifold it's *really* restrictive.
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:51 AM   #6
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i was thinking about going w the ceramic coated headers ipd has. good?
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Old 05-08-2013, 11:57 AM   #7
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i was thinking about going w the ceramic coated headers ipd has. good?
For a street car the stock manifold and dual downpipe is probably better. It's a 4:2:1 style that works at the sort of RPM ranges you're going to see. I think the 4:1 style headers might work better at really high RPM's.

And not to be all snooty or anything, but the headers they sell aren't really great headers. AFAIK they're just 'Patriot' brand headers. I got one on Amazon last summer for $75 shipped. Plain steel, not ceramic coated, but there you go.
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Old 05-08-2013, 12:49 PM   #8
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Exhaust manifold wise stick to the cast twin downpipe version, the tubular manifolds are not worth it if sticking to 1.8.. Behind that a decent 2" exhaust should take care of getting the gases out. The twin 1 3/4 SU's are perfect for a daily but not with the daft manifold that has the built in butterflies.
Head you might as well work with what you have but machine it out to take the E inlet valves and change the liners to take care of the difference in stem size (or you can use k liners). Just give the ports and chambers a bit of a clean reasonable skim on the head.
Cam wise the factory K and D work well in the B18 for a daily but other more modern grinds could be better.
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:12 PM   #9
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so in doing more research it looks like vintage performance has a modern street performance cam for a reasonable $260 that claims to increase power in the whole rpm range up to 50%. i think i'll go in this direction as far as a cam goes. does anyone have any experience w these cams? anyone know how they compare to the isky street performance cams? i'm really torn however between using a b20E or F head or spending a lot more money to put larger valves in the head that i have? opinions?
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Old 05-08-2013, 01:21 PM   #10
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Google John Parker VPD and read the stories from people who have done business with him over the last 4 or 5 years before you proceed with him.

I'm sure a more modern cam lobe profile would be good stuff, the Isky's are frankly (AFAIK) 60's designs still. I've got the W-81 in my engine, it waits until 3250 rpm (or so) and then takes off.

I think about the only potential issue with the B20 head on the B18 is the potential for the sides of the combustion chamber to be wider than the bore. that's not a good situation. Get a B18 HG and lay it over the B20 head, see what it looks like.

Other than that the b20 heads are better, bigger intake valves, bigger ports (somewhat), real valve seals.
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Old 05-08-2013, 02:54 PM   #11
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wow! john parker, what a d**k!! i guess i wont be doing business w him! who puts out a good performance cam for the b18? ill prob just have my head worked by knox if they're not too terribly expensive. or if anyone has a ported b18 head out there they wanna get rid of hit me up!
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:00 PM   #12
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If you look for a head, instead of going for the nearly un-obtanium B20E head, having to block FI ports etc, look for the latest B20B head, and IIRC '72 is the last year for a carb B20 head (in the US) the '72 140 wagon that came with the HIF6 carbs have the bigger valves, and the high compression of the E head. Also, that year, along with replacement manifolds from Volvo don't have the secondary throttles. These manifolds are shorter runners and flow much better than previous carb manifolds.
Also find some HIF6 carbs and you will see better performance than the HS6's. For needles on your B18 I would go with DX or KD, even richer if your motor can cope, R needles.

There was a thread on someone parting out 2 145's and B20B w/a set of HIF6's and B20F head with the above manifold. One of those cars was mine and I rebuilt the HIF6's and painted the twin manif alum.
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=277387

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Old 05-08-2013, 03:24 PM   #13
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ive heard the kd needles are great. from what i hear thats what came in the 123. where can i find such a thing? im hearing conflicting things about using a b20 head on a b18. some say it works well, others say no fn way! does anyone have first hand knowledge?
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:25 PM   #14
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i found a b20E head for $175
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:31 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickdaddy View Post
ive heard the kd needles are great. from what i hear thats what came in the 123. where can i find such a thing? im hearing conflicting things about using a b20 head on a b18. some say it works well, others say no fn way! does anyone have first hand knowledge?
If you want to stick to your B18 bore size, you may be best off just milling and rebuilding your existing head to raise the compression to the P1800 spec. That along with the "D" cam and the 4-2-1 manifold and decent exhaust should help a lot. I have the ex manifold if you need it.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:32 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickdaddy View Post
ive heard the kd needles are great. from what i hear thats what came in the 123. where can i find such a thing? im hearing conflicting things about using a b20 head on a b18. some say it works well, others say no fn way! does anyone have first hand knowledge?
I can take a picture of a B20 head with a B18 head gasket for you tomorrow. Sure it will run, is it a good plan, probably not.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:46 PM   #17
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I put a B20 head on a B18 once.





But I also put B20 pistons in the B18 block too.
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Old 05-08-2013, 03:52 PM   #18
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I put a B20 head on a B18 once.





But I also put B20 pistons in the B18 block too.
No replacement for displacement I have heard horror stories about core shift on some B18 blocks and punching to B20 size, but for all I know they could just have been rumors.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:00 PM   #19
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I'm sure it happens.

So far I've done big overbored on 3 redblocks, one B18 to B20 size, and two B20 to B21 size. Never had an issue on any of them.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:34 PM   #20
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so in doing more research it looks like vintage performance has a modern street performance cam for a reasonable $260 that claims to increase power in the whole rpm range up to 50%. i think i'll go in this direction as far as a cam goes. does anyone have any experience w these cams? anyone know how they compare to the isky street performance cams? i'm really torn however between using a b20E or F head or spending a lot more money to put larger valves in the head that i have? opinions?
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:48 PM   #21
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What ever you do stay away from VPD and John Parker. There are plenty of other places to get cams. Isky and Schneider are two that come to mind.

I would suggest boring to B20 displacement and using a stock E head. I can promise you won't be unsatisfied with the improvement over the B18.
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Old 05-08-2013, 04:53 PM   #22
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Quote:
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ive heard the kd needles are great. from what i hear thats what came in the 123. where can i find such a thing? im hearing conflicting things about using a b20 head on a b18. some say it works well, others say no fn way! does anyone have first hand knowledge?
I've not put a B20B/E/F head on a B18, but put several B20E/F heads on a B20B. It should work, but not the best combustion chamber when your done.

The 123GT came with a B20B and if equipped with the KD needles was fairly done over to gain the correct a/f ratio. The KD works well on a B20 where the flow is much greater. On a B18 it would need some good porting work, hot cam and plus size on the bore, too. If the B18 head is mildly worked, then the stock SM needles for a B20 will be your best starting point.

to compare the needles, go here:
http://www.mintylamb.co.uk/suneedle/

To buy them order from SU directly or one of their US dist.
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Old 05-08-2013, 06:16 PM   #23
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I've got your M41 if you want it. Ill send PM.
If the original poster isn't interested in your m41, I definitely am. I am also located in Charleston, SC so no shipping needed.
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Old 05-08-2013, 07:23 PM   #24
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if the bottom end on this b18 wasnt nice and tight, i got 165-170psi on all 4 cyl when i did a comp test on the dead cold motor, i would absolutely bore it out. im also working on a budget here. the d cam looks like itll perform well w the stock b18 bottom end and some decent porting on the head. looks like ive found an m41 to put in her and possibly a set of hif6's. would the hif6's perform considerably better than my hs6's w a kd needle?
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:18 PM   #25
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Try Bob Griffith at bhpdev@ptd.net for a cam, he has a great street cam. Truth is, he is the developer of the cams that the a**hole sells. Bob has been around B18/B20s for over 30 years.
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