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012 MAF/AMM vs homemade ~3" one with 016 guts

thelocalspoke

thelocalspoke

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Joined
Jun 6, 2007
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What does experience tell us run best?

I'll be using an RSI stage 1 cam, Bosch Green Giants, a ported 15G/90+, TLAO fuel and EZK chips, 3" DP with OBX to the back...

I have an extra 016, can gut it; 012s seem a bit thin on the ground around here.

Thanks,
 
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It will work fine but because the meter element of the 016 won't be in the center of the 3" pipe, it's most likely going to skew the results slightly. I put the 016 electronics inside a 025 housing and worked perfect. Felt faster actually (butt dyno reading).

All that said, I think you have too much injector for that setup. BTDT. ;-)

It'll still be fun as hell. :nod:
 
BDKR said:
All that said, I think you have too much injector for that setup. BTDT. ;-)
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Well, the cross-sectional area increase from an 016 to an 012 is about 1/3, and the flow increase from my stock 29lb greentops to my store-bought (genuine) 42lb Bosch Green Giants is also about 1/3; maintaining this ratio is what I am led to believe I should shoot for, in order for LH 2.4 to cope.

***I just want to decide whether to keep trying to find an 012, or make a bigger 016***

It's likely my stock injectors are in lousy shape (tip-in ping if abrupt; top end ping if I let it; poor idle; car was found with missing gas cap and water in the tank, which I drained after trying to start it:oops:). I'll have a wideband in a coupla days.

So, frankly, I expect the bigger injectors to work better down low in this case.
 
I have a custom made 3 inch AMM out of the 016, but i have not tested it yet. I know it works, as i have plugged it in and the car ran fine, so i would be interested to see how it will turn out. I will probably be using it with the browntops i got off a saab 9000 turbo. Would that be ok? I got a chipped ecu and ezk, 3 inch stainless turboback, cone filter, 16t turbo and an aem intank pump :)
 
thelocalspoke said:
Well, the cross-sectional area increase from an 016 to an 012 is about 1/3, and the flow increase from my stock 29lb greentops to my store-bought (genuine) 42lb Bosch Green Giants is also about 1/3; maintaining this ratio is what I am led to believe I should shoot for, in order for LH 2.4 to cope.
Click to expand...

Yeah.... I had the same setup and the same injectors which I bought brand new as well, running chipped computers (Fred's chips). This was 2006. It was fun as hell, but it was still pretty rich at full honk.

I would try the 36lb to 38lb range.

That said, it's still a fun setup! :nod:

thelocalspoke said:
***I just want to decide whether to keep trying to find an 012, or make a bigger 016***
Click to expand...

They'll both work and the difference will be barely (if at all) noticeable.
 
I am going to back track a little on what I said above.

I was not using an RSI cam and I Frankenstiened the turbo so it was still using a 13c tdo4H (not HL) turbine wheel and housing. Modified OE dp which flared to 3". I ran the stock M cam and n/a bottom end which gave me a brutal fast spooling torquey setup.

You're no doubt breathing a bit better on the top end. :-D

Sling it all together and let's see. The 42's may be just fine in this case as you rev out. Mine was done by 5200 RPM.
 
I was running white injectors with a similar setup on my race car and it was still way too much. It ran much happier with orange [850T] injectors
 
pat244ti said:
I was running white injectors with a similar setup on my race car and it was still way too much. It ran much happier with orange [850T] injectors
Click to expand...

I actually have a set of 5 orange injectors from an 850T. (0 280 155 831, IIRC).

Those are rated for 31.8 lbs, vs ~29 for my stock greentops. **BUT THEY ARE RATED AT 3.8 BAR, NOT 3**. So, with the stock 3 bar FPR they *should* flow less than my stock ones

I don't doubt they'd run BETTER, as in idle, etc, than my current ones, and If I had a 4 bar FPR I'd have tried it already.
 
thelocalspoke said:
I don't doubt they'd run BETTER, as in idle, etc, than my current ones, and If I had a 4 bar FPR I'd have tried it already.
Click to expand...

All of the above injectors are going to run just fine at idle and cruise. This is where 2.4 absolutely get's it right: in closed loop operation. It's going to continually adjust based on what it see's from the O2 sensor. You could turn the car off with 42's, put in 38's, and within minutes it'll readjust and idle perfectly for those new squirters.

Open Loop is where this all goes wonky. 2.4 has some preset maps based on the original injectors. No matter what anyone says, it doesn't learn and apply 5hit to these maps. This is why you alter the metering on the intake side (larger amm) to account for the larger injectors.

BTW, open loop is when your foot is down and you're making a good amount of boost.

The larger AMM does work! One way you'll notice is that a 016 3" AMM will go Open Loop later then the OE sizes 016 setup.

Lastly, A LOT OF US have been down this road. People here are giving you ten years experience with chips and AMM size juggling. Don't try to reason too much against a flood of experience. ;-)
 
BDKR said:
Lastly, A LOT OF US have been down this road. People here are giving you ten years experience with chips and AMM size juggling. Don't try to reason too much against a flood of experience. ;-)
Click to expand...

Lotta good info, but so far it's half saying I need bigger than Green Giants (f.i.TLAO) and half saying smaller (f.i. you!). Average that out and they should be just right:nod:

I mostly wonder if anyone has tried a homemade-with-016-guts AMM vs. an 012 and was one better in any way.
 
I had a very similar setup, with the 016 it would run so rich that it would cut out and with the 012 it runs perfectly fine at WOT.
 
thelocalspoke said:
I mostly wonder if anyone has tried a homemade-with-016-guts AMM vs. an 012 and was one better in any way.
Click to expand...

You mean put the guts into some 3" pipe? I told you I put the guts into a 3" housing that was originally from a 025. Same difference. Here's a couple of pics for reference. 012 top and 016 in the 025 housing.

012.jpg

016.jpg
 
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The circle must go in the center if the pipe for it to work correctly , the airspeed and density is unstable at the edges and will give a bad reading , simply mount the 016 element into a 3" pipe
 
WAGONRACER said:
...the airspeed and density is unstable at the edges and will give a bad reading...
Click to expand...

Of course! Your concern is boundary layer variations.

WAGONRACER said:
simply mount the 016 element into a 3" pipe
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I have doubt that this will work as you'll likely end up with the base of the nacelle protruding into the air flow (the 016 nacelle and vanes aren't as long as the 025). Yes, you will wind up with the housing centered, but also create more turbulence down stream of the base and more pressure upstream.

I'm willing to bet that those vanes protruding into the air stream at either side of the nacelle provide cooling and smooth and direct airflow through that region of the stream. Which is prolly why it worked so well for me.
 
linuxman51 said:
gotta part number for that? can't hit ebay at work
Click to expand...

From the ebay, you're welcome.

nterchange Part Number: 0280213012, 0986280110, 154916, 8827429, 8827479
Other Part Number: 9113846, 8602793, 3517569, 8251498

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