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1800 best engine/ trans swap ??

culberro said:
There’s a great thread over on Savar turbo where they took a pushrod b20 (big bore 2.1L) with an aggressive-ish cam and slapped different heads onto it for a dyno shootout using DCOE 45s and a header. The heads were also put on a flow bench first. It’s a really cool read, I’ll find it here in a few minutes.

Anyways, a number of them were over 200hp crank.
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sounds like $30 per HP
 
240 240 said:
sounds like $30 per HP
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Pretty close.

B21 (or nice forged) pistons plus machine work: $1000
Ported head with bigger valves and dual spring kit: $1000-1500
Camshaft: $300
Chinese DCOEs: $700
Intake Manifold and throttle linkage: $250-300
4-2-1 exhaust manifold from Sweden: $300-400


$3500 on the low end, some assembly and tuning required. But that’s what it’ll take.

How much have you spent on your 940 turbo that makes 150hp and gets 12mpg?
 
culberro said:
Pretty close.

B21 (or nice forged) pistons plus machine work: $1000
Ported head with bigger valves and dual spring kit: $1000-1500
Camshaft: $300
Chinese DCOEs: $700
Intake Manifold and throttle linkage: $250-300
4-2-1 exhaust manifold from Sweden: $300-400


$3500 on the low end, some assembly and tuning required. But that’s what it’ll take.

How much have you spent on your 940 turbo that makes 150hp and gets 12mpg?
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I'm pretty sure my very tame B20 (the classic tight squish 10:1 formula) has in the end cost me $2k all said and done. This stuff is pricey (relative to the average TB budget) even doing the basics when you want to make power and do it right.
 
I remember when I first joined TB, I wanted to build this field-find '67 144S into some kind of rally car with a 200 hp B20.

Took some minor bullying for me to realize that was never going to happen on any kind of budget, especially not on a car that had sat for 25 years and had no floors, no wiring and absolutely no fasteners to mount the relatively few parts I did have for it. Also that I was never going to make any power by putting an R cam in a worn out B20F with next to no ring seal and a crank gear stuck in the front of it.
 
OP: at first everyone was cool and supportive, and you acknowledged that.
Then someone made a joke based on your comment that nobody was an “a hole”, and you got indignant.
Despite your perceptions, we are still supportive of whatever you do.
We used to be more strict about staying on-topic here, but allow some fun.
If needed, i will move this to Off-Topic and it can continue as a benchrace thread there.
If you choose a path and start a build thread or ask technical questions in a new thread, i will move it.
 
I knew about the Cyan months ago.
Using a Sawzall is safer than my plasma , this doesnt mean the car will be a "Hack Job...." Not into bolt on body parts. Not looking for "inspiration" just input as to what has worked best for modified 1800's with or without Volvo drive trains. Anyone can modifiy a stock drivetrain and there is alot to be said for a pure car done right, at the same time going the restomod route is also cool and shows creativity. Never said I have a budget... I said I didnt want to break the bank maybe I should have worded it differently. Time and money all have a value and if that exceeds the result of the end product its probably not a good feeling. Speaking to people with knowledge of specific cars helps to avoid mistakes. Been modifying cars for 35 years from turboed old school Gto's Corvettes, Chevelles to Fiats, MG's, tr-6's . Now maybe a widebody 1800 Ecotech, or B20...that decision will be made after measurements before cutting . Making assumptions about peoples capabilities or accomplishments never ends well.
 
Back to my stance on it. Your goals and the route to achieve them will be limited by two or three things available budget, and available skills/tools, and time depending on where you’re at in life.

Like spok pointed out. I have a CNC machine shop at my disposal, a fully set fab shop, and not much money available anymore. The current powertrain build was not done in my new shop, save for the bits I’m working on now. It was all done in a gravel driveway, or my home garage, and it performed well, looked like hammered dog poop, but I payed attention to the advice I was given, and picked up used pieces on the cheap and rebuilt them myself when it was cost effective. Then I started to spend money where I needed it. But one thing I’ve learned over the last 4 builds while my personal car has sat idle. SET a budget, total budget with cash in hand seems to work best for me. The last car was for my wife, so I asked her to tell me 60-70% of what she was willing to spend on a project and I pretty well stuck to it. We came in 20% under her total budget, and over target on what she wanted in the end.
 
spock345 said:
I'm pretty sure my very tame B20 (the classic tight squish 10:1 formula) has in the end cost me $2k all said and done. This stuff is pricey (relative to the average TB budget) even doing the basics when you want to make power and do it right.
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Making power takes money, it takes a whole lot more when it's an engine that's at best 50 years old now.

Realistic expectations are a must. I feel like you've got a great grasp on that with your current motor builds.
 
If you want to see/read what it takes to make 200+hp 190+ hp NA on a b20 based engine:

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forum.savarturbo.se forum.savarturbo.se

tldr: Over 200 would have happened on the top 3-5 heads if they used larger carbs. The DCOE 45s were the choke point in the shootout.
 
OP, I'm currently looking at a B23 (overhead cam 240 engine) swap in my 144. Not yet exactly an 1800ES but a similar approach can be taken to the swap. You could go that route and either start off with a turbo like Pat's ES or go NA with a stock 240 engine and cam and add a turbo later. All of these options are pretty well documented online and could be a springboard for something.

Or strap a turbo or supercharger to your stock B20 and go to micro/megasquirt EFI. I'd love to see another supercharged B20 and you can re use a lot of the original D jet EFI parts.
 
culberro said:
Realistic expectations are a must. I feel like you've got a great grasp on that with your current motor builds.
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When a car sits or has something wrong it bugs me. It keeps my work relatively simple and planned out ahead of time. Renting also prevents me from stripping a car to a bare chassis and building it up over the long term. So everyone's ambition and circumstances are different.
 
Two Yoots said:
I knew about the Cyan months ago.
Using a Sawzall is safer than my plasma , this doesnt mean the car will be a "Hack Job...." Not into bolt on body parts. Not looking for "inspiration" just input as to what has worked best for modified 1800's with or without Volvo drive trains. Anyone can modifiy a stock drivetrain and there is alot to be said for a pure car done right, at the same time going the restomod route is also cool and shows creativity. Never said I have a budget... I said I didnt want to break the bank maybe I should have worded it differently. Time and money all have a value and if that exceeds the result of the end product its probably not a good feeling. Speaking to people with knowledge of specific cars helps to avoid mistakes. Been modifying cars for 35 years from turboed old school Gto's Corvettes, Chevelles to Fiats, MG's, tr-6's . Now maybe a widebody 1800 Ecotech, or B20...that decision will be made after measurements before cutting . Making assumptions about peoples capabilities or accomplishments never ends well.
Click to expand...
Two Yoots, welcome to TB! There are many people here who are extremely helpful. It does, however, generally come with "a price to pay". Keep in mind that despite some of the extreme "fun poking" you'll encounter, many times these people are actually trying to keep you from going down what could be a very long, expensive and fruitless path. These people know well the hidden problems that almost always exist with these cars, so they know that it's more likely than not that, unless you got extremely lucky, you most likely have a car that may not fundamentally be capable of being used to achieve what you indicate your goal is. Do your best to filter out the rest. I am surprised that none has simply asked, how much rust is on the car? These can often rust from the inside out and in some very hard to see seams, so there could be more than you're able to detect, unless you've poked around in all of the necessary places.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do with this car.
 
srs4164 said:
Two Yoots, welcome to TB! There are many people here who are extremely helpful. It does, however, generally come with "a price to pay". Keep in mind that despite some of the extreme "fun poking" you'll encounter, many times these people are actually trying to keep you from going down what could be a very long, expensive and fruitless path. These people know well the hidden problems that almost always exist with these cars, so they know that it's more likely than not that, unless you got extremely lucky, you most likely have a car that may not fundamentally be capable of being used to achieve what you indicate your goal is. Do your best to filter out the rest. I am surprised that none has simply asked, how much rust is on the car? These can often rust from the inside out and in some very hard to see seams, so there could be more than you're able to detect, unless you've poked around in all of the necessary places.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do with this car.
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Jeff asked for pictures
 
Two Yoots said:
Thanks guys.. looks like a lot of room on the driver side for an Eaton or other.
BTW there is a cheap solstice GXP for sale Ecotech 2.0 260hp donor something to look into.. not sure if this has ever been done.. I know I'm all over right now but trying to figure it all out. Cant wait to get out the Sawzall to all you simple minded haters
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That's what I would do, and yes, it has been done. 15A bought 3-4 P1800s and was going to go all out building an Ecotec P1800 and sell installation kits to people wanting a modern drivetrain in their Volvo. The volatile market for these cars made him rethink the whole idea and he sold everything off before getting too far into the concept.

There is a reason none of you on here ever heard about his plans. This thread is a classic example of why it never came up on the TB forum. He didn't want to hear all the bullshit from people that weren't doing anything other than shooting their mouths off. He had a point. He actually sourced the engine and drivetrain and was looking into the suspension/cross member fabrication to get everything rolling on the conversion. Then, he just stopped. He came to the reality that the Volvo community is just too weird to appreciate a turn key solution to everything they want in a classic car like the P1800. An engine that runs smooth as glass, makes all kinds of power and fits under the hood like it belongs there with a transmission that can handle the power and shifts nice with enough gears to keep the car in the power band and still get great fuel mileage. All the while, being reliable and easy to drive. He was even looking at power steering, modern AC, the works. If he had more money to work with I know he could have and would have pulled it off.

Here is one I found with the GM Ecotec motor and transmission. You can see it fits without cutting the car all up. 300 hp is enough of an upgrade everything else will need to be upgraded. Even in NA configuration the Ecotec is a major power upgrade.

<iframe width="1248" height="702" src="
" title="300HP Ecotec-Swapped 1963 Volvo P1800 - One Take" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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Jack said:
“1800 owners have deeps pockets but short hands”
Volvo George

What might have happened to 15a is different then what happened here
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Volvo George is correct. Let me put that into plain english for you, "Volvo owners are cheap bastards." Not everyone, but, as a car make following, the stereotype fits. You like to pin it on 7-9 owners. I'll correct you, it is true for all the models, including the round fender versions. After meeting with Joe Lazenby last summer when he came all the way to Oregon to pack up my friend's Volvo collection I'm convinced it is the same with the entire following. That is why Joe is so careful with what he buys. His customers want to have a really cool classic 444, 544, 122, 123, yet, they don't want to spend a dime to achieve that goal. 15A came to that conclusion before getting too deep into a kit that he might have been lucky to sell enough of them to get his money back, plus 1.7 cents per hour for his time involved.
 
2manyturbos said:
Volvo George is correct. Let me put that into plain english for you, "Volvo owners are cheap bastards." Not everyone, but, as a car make following, the stereotype fits. You like to pin it on 7-9 owners. I'll correct you, it is true for all the models, including the round fender versions. After meeting with Joe Lazenby last summer when he came all the way to Oregon to pack up my friend's Volvo collection I'm convinced it is the same with the entire following. That is why Joe is so careful with what he buys. His customers want to have a really cool classic 444, 544, 122, 123, yet, they don't want to spend a dime to achieve that goal. 15A came to that conclusion before getting too deep into a kit that he might have been lucky to sell enough of them to get his money back, plus 1.7 cents per hour for his time involved.
Click to expand...

You’re not saying anything I don’t know. You know I too was deep into this for years
 
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