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1967 122S DOA In SF, CA (Revival of a, that is...)

polaris

Mk V
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Location
SF, CA
Earlier today I was moving 1967 122 after the street cleaner down the street. Made a u-turn to go back up the hill and park the car next to my garage entrance about 30 yards away. Waiting behind a car, when the light turns green they head through the intersection. I put the 122 in first and rev the engine. The Amazon moves a couple feet and unexpectedly the engine instantly stalls. Hit the starter button but all I hear is a fast crank from the B18. Check around the engine but there was nothing obvious. Since I was blocking traffic I used the starter to get the car through the intersection and out of other drivers’ way. Call my friend Alex and he drives right over. I bring down in my 242, Alex guides it in to make sure the bumpers match and jumps back in the 122. The 242 is able to push the 122 up the hill and into one of the spots in front of my place.

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Because of the fast cranking, my first thought is there is something up with the timing gears. Pop the distributor cap and indeed the rotor is not rotating at all. Grab the rotor to twist it and it beyond the slight play, it locks to either side so it is not freewheelin’. After Alex heads back home, head inside, to fabricate a rudimentary starter button between the battery and starter solenoid. Wire in the switch, remove the valve cover and I push the button. While the car cranks, the valve train remains motionless.




This weekend I will be removing the timing cover to get a look at the timing gear. Wanted to see if this no-start/run condition could be anything else besides the fiber timing gear leaving the chat. I would have thought there would have been at least an advanced audible warning of the fiber gear on its way out. Also any suggestions on the best way to remove the old timing gears off the engine would be appreciated. Am certainly glad this happen so close and not out of the city on the eve of a holiday weekend

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It's not a terribly difficult job. But be patient and don't force anything.
Highly recommend you use a puller for the gear and do not try to pry it off.
Check the brass retainer after the cam gear is off for wear and cracks.
Avoid the temptation to tap the new gear into place.

I've used both the fiber and aluminum gear sets on different (daily driver) engines.
Never found one to be better than the other.

Might be a good time to upgrade from the felt front seal too.
That engine looks clean which makes things much more pleasant to work on.
 
When I first got my PV going again (it had been sitting for 17 year in a carport) the timing gear fell apart on it. But the strange thing there was the fiber portion of the gear came loose from the metal hub, and it was making a HORRIBLE rattling noise as it bounced around against the timing gear, but it KEPT RUNNING. Sounded like a diesel, but I think I drove it like that for about 15 miles or so? When I took the timing cover off the gear fell out. I have no idea how the fiber gear lasted that long after coming loose, and kept turning the cam.

One caution for replacing timing gears - be careful pulling the timing gear off the cam. Once while replacing a cam with a flat lobe in my old 1800E I accidentally bumped the cam backwards a bit (tappy tappy tapping the end of the cam while holding the cam gear out) and it knocked out the freeze plug at the back end of the cam bore - which is inside the bellhousing. So my cam swap instantly expanded to include pulling the trans and putting a new clutch in (clutch had plenty of life, but might as well put it together with a new clutch). So yeah, use a puller.
 
The fiber timing gear is the only weak part (other than the cam going flat) in an OHV Volvo engine. It can fail by either breaking a few teeth off or by separating from the steel hub.

B18 engines came with a steel thrust plate which can usually be reused. The timing gear kits used to come with a brass thrust plate so it might have one if the gears have been replaced in the past. I dont see a thrust plate in the kits VP is selling so you may have to buy it separately. The steel thrust plate, which I prefer, is still available.

I may have a SWAG steel gear kit in storage which is the brand Volvo used to sell. The steel gear kits VP is selling are not made by SWAG. I bought some kits from Skandix years ago that didn't have any back lash and had to send them back so you need to careful with aftermarket parts.

I'm hesitant to loan out tools as I've been burned twice by TB members but I think I can trust you.
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The fiber timing gear is the only weak part (other than the cam going flat) in an OHV Volvo engine. It can fail by either breaking a few teeth off or by separating from the steel hub.

Great, I want to make sure I am not heading down the wrong path with automatically assuming the timing gear is the root cause.

When I picked up the 122 two years ago, this engine came along as part of the package (along with several transmissions). The PO said the engine had been previously rebuilt and put into a 122 wagon. It had around 20K miles on it before the wagon was wiped out after being T-boned by another car. The PO was a long time Volvo employee here in the Bay Area and has a pretty amazing inventory of parts. If you have attended the Davis Volvo meet, you'll know who I am referring to. I messaged him yesterday afternoon asking if he might have any replacement timing gears, he just had a single large fiber gear and not smaller steel one for the crank.

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With a little persuasion, I was able to get the original engine in the car to run and idle. Soon after that engine was replaced by the rebuilt one. There is probably less than 150 miles put on the car/engine since getting it up and running a year and a half ago. One other thought which crossed my mind last night is could the fiber gear have suffered damage from the accident which destroyed its previous home? Easy to speculate but probably hard to prove.

Alschnertz and JohnMc, thank you for sharing your experiences in doing and dealing with this job. Hiperfauto, as always you are a wealth of knowledge and I'll pm you about the your parts offer. Very much appreciated.

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I had the fiber gear fail on my '75 245 and it happened suddenly, without any warning. Cruising along the interstate just fine and then nothing. It did not damage anything else, but fishing the shredded bits of gear teeth out of the oil pan was fun. Thrust plate was cracked. I used Ian's tool set that he pictured above, which made it a straightforward job. I cleaned out the oil squirter as well per his advice.

https://turbobricks.com/index.php?t...975-245-dl-survivor-wagon.327998/post-5519111
 
This afternoon had some time to wrench on the 1967 122. After draining the coolant and removing the radiator, took off the fan, belt pulley and crankshaft pulley. Next step is loosening the fasteners from the cover as well as the bottom two on the oil pan. To try and save the oil pan gasket, insert an Olfa blade between the cover and the gasket material to separate them. This gasket probably would have ripped due to some sealant used in the corner of the section under the cover. Pull the cover off to find a surprising view.

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Did not expect the fiber gear to be intact but rather sheared off teeth or large cracks. Grab the perimeter with my hands and can feel it has slight wiggle and see movement around the center piece behind the nut. Rotating the crankshaft, the outer fiber part rotates though the camshaft nut remains still. The next question is how to remove the center section with the out fiber part is detached.

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I don't think a 3 jaw puller will be able to get behind the hub. A bearing splitter can probably get behind or on the hub and then pry it off with a couple of pry bars or screw drivers.

I never liked those black cam gears. They look like they were made of plastic instead of the original fiber material. IIRC they were made in Japan.
 
In the case of my failed timing gear, the fiber portion fell off, so I was able to unbolt the thrust plate and pull the cam, and had someone else pull the hub off to recover the cam spacer, because I was replacing whatever tractor cam the PV B18 motors had with a D cam, which is a great upgrade. And my tool horde was much smaller then, I didn't have a puller that could do anything with the small hub.

But that involves pulling the head (to pull the lifters), along with the fuel pump and oil pump/dist drive gear.
 
Maybe something locked up with the camshaft/valvetrain. Can you spin that 36MM nut?

Had not considered that as a possibility until I read your post. Haven't really heard of cases of camshafts seizing in the B18 except in the case of the camshaft breaking. Nothing like the B27 top end which was notorious for giving up the ghost. Anyway, was able to borrow a 36mm socket from my friend Alex. Took off the timing gear cover and slap it on the camshaft bolt. Pop off the distributor cap and then the valve cover. Push down on the socket wrench and it rotates (whew!). It is not quite smooth but attribute that to the drag from the separated part of the gear.

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That is good news. I was just wondering if there was some type of failsafe built into the system where the gear shears off instead of another component getting destroyed. Kinda like how a propeller on a boat has a rubber that shears off if the prop hits the bottom instead of the drivetrain shearing off teeth.

Anyways, good to see the cam still spins and the valvetrain is still moving.
 
I have been able to remove the failed fiber gear portion off of the camshaft. While turning the engine, used long screwdriver to walk he gear section off the center section and the teeth of the crankshaft gear.

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Now the challenge is how to remove the center section off of the camshaft. The diameter is just shy of 2". My largest vice grips are just able to grab onto the perimeter but I am unable to lock them down and unable to get a good purchase on it. There is not any space behind it to slip a puller so trying to figure out other options.

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No wonder it failed. The original fiber gear hub has large nubs that go into the fiber gear instead of those tiny splines.

Tighten the bearing splitter really tight and try prying the hub off. If that doesn't work you may have to cut a groove into the hub.
 
Locate a set of needle nose vice grips which can lock into the end of the center piece. Wiggle the vice grips and periodically changed their position. Try a bearing separator to see if that would gain purchase but it couldn't get seated. Go back to the vice grips and after a little bit notice the smallest of gaps has appeared next to the trust plate. As I continue to wiggle them, start to think about how apply force toward the front of the engine. Bring out a large screw driver and a rubber mallet. After a couple minutes of tapping the mallet into the handle, stop to locate a longer tool for more leverage. Bring out a pickle fork and put that against the jaw of the vice grips. After several readjustments of the vice grips. finally start to see the gap opening up and the center piece slowly moving forward. Grab the vice grips and it finally slides all the way off the camshaft. While it took some time to get this remnant removed it was not as bad as what I was imagining it would involve.

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