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244Ti Stage Rally Project

The only downside is that you can no longer use the factory in-board bracket... Well I guess you could if you opened up the mounting hole a bit. It does a nice job of tying the upper and lower link mounts together.
 
Hell yeah thanks for the advice on that. I know we were doing some reinforcements and building a "ski jump" for the front trailing arm mount. Was not sure what the plan was for the torque rods
 
But what I'm trying to get at is.... why is that better?
Why are parallel links better?
Why not xx% anti-squat?
How much roll steer do you want or need?
 
Tuff240 said:
If you are going through that much effort, raise them up into the rear seat area for better geometry and longer rods.
Click to expand...

I'm keeping most of the rear suspension stock as far as geometry and mounting for now - just reinforcing it for strength because that is what needs attention.

Once I feel like I have my end of the deal all together [driving], I'll start messing with things like that if I really feel the need. I see enough people doing fine with it who have ran it that way for years where I think it will be fine for me to start with instead of trying to get too creative off the bat.
 
culberro said:
But what I'm trying to get at is.... why is that better?
Why are parallel links better?
Why not xx% anti-squat?
How much roll steer do you want or need?
Click to expand...
I spent a couple days worth of spare time here and there righting up a nice reply for you. Had pics uploaded and links to articles and videos. Power went out and wiped it all out. :grrr:
I know you know the basics of this stuff at least and you were more or less just goading me into writing something for informations sake, but I'm over it.

Here's the pics I uploaded at least...

Factory Group A car:

103_0354_zpsm9pwgbep.jpg


103_0341_zpsf0s05gzi.jpg


Then someone taking it even farther on a modified 240:

11397213.02b001_zpspma3vhna.jpg




pat244ti said:
I'm keeping most of the rear suspension stock as far as geometry and mounting for now - just reinforcing it for strength because that is what needs attention.

Once I feel like I have my end of the deal all together [driving], I'll start messing with things like that if I really feel the need. I see enough people doing fine with it who have ran it that way for years where I think it will be fine for me to start with instead of trying to get too creative off the bat.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a reasonable plan. ;-)
 
Tuff240 said:
I spent a couple days worth of spare time here and there righting up a nice reply for you. Had pics uploaded and links to articles and videos. Power went out and wiped it all out. :grrr:
I know you know the basics of this stuff at least and you were more or less just goading me into writing something for informations sake, but I'm over it.
Click to expand...

Hopefully I wasn't annoying you, because that wasn't what I was going for. Thanks for taking the time to make a post (again) with some good pictures! I have been curious about rear suspension, and was hoping for some insight since I know you have experience in the road racing world.

I went to A-n-T and measured the rear suspension geometry for both a mk1 Escort rally car (the REAL deal) and Garth's Starlet rally car. These cars both had links that were all 25in long, but they were set up with 45% (Escort) and 30% (Starlet) anti-squat. I need to crawl under the volvo and measure the links, but I'm guessing that it is in the 60+% range.

From the top Gr.A picture, you can see that the top link is raised about an 1in, and that would lower the amount of anti-squat. The longer upper link will also limit the amount of pinion change in bump/drop compared to stock. It will also keep the rear wheels from moving forward (as much) when the suspension goes into major bump. I could see that as being helpful for rally.

As far as what is needed, the VOC cars and F-Cup volvos seem to be going really fast with just stock rear links. But that doesn't mean that an improvement couldn't be made, I just think that there's lower hanging fruit that need to be taken care of first.
 
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Tuff240 said:
Sounds like a reasonable plan. ;-)
Click to expand...

I think so. Rally is a whole different game but I am kinda going at it the same way I did stock cars - just drive the car the first year, make changes and be more aggressive once you get the hang of it. I did that the second year and I went from finishing top 5 - top 10 nightly to consistent podiums.

culberro said:
I just think that there's lower hanging fruit that need to be taken care of first.
Click to expand...

This, but all the discussion will help down the line.

Been making weekly trips up to Al's to work on the car. It's taken a little bit of time but it's just about ready for paint now that the whole pan is clean. Going to paint the tub/engine bay/trunk area gloss white for cleaning and crack spotting.




I got a 244 parts car, so the roof panel will get a patch from that car, as well as other odds and ends like side windows,manual regulators, and door cards. As far as exterior paint, I decided the hood, roof and trunk top will be white to keep heat down. One of the events I am doing is Gorman Ridge and it gets hot there in August. The sides from the trim line down will be red, blitz black and a little gold.




Recently been ordering a lot of the parts to get the cat totally complete. Got most of the safety equipment out of the way.



Got a nice handbrake. Also ordered up everything to completely re plumb the brake circuit with mostly AN3 connections, and will have single line 240 ABS front calipers and a bias valve in the center console.



Also scored a RSI Stage II cam. Not sure if it's going in this car or the Lemons car just yet.

 
Pat, car is looking great and I admire how much you guys get done.
Are you putting real paint on or just bomb cans like the lemons car?

culberro said:
Hopefully I wasn't annoying you, because that wasn't what I was going for. Thanks for taking the time to make a post (again) with some good pictures! I have been curious about rear suspension, and was hoping for some insight since I know you have experience in the road racing world.

I went to A-n-T and measured the rear suspension geometry for both a mk1 Escort rally car (the REAL deal) and Garth's Starlet rally car. These cars both had links that were all 25in long, but they were set up with 45% (Escort) and 30% (Starlet) anti-squat. I need to crawl under the volvo and measure the links, but I'm guessing that it is in the 60+% range.

From the top Gr.A picture, you can see that the top link is raised about an 1in, and that would lower the amount of anti-squat. The longer upper link will also limit the amount of pinion change in bump/drop compared to stock. It will also keep the rear wheels from moving forward (as much) when the suspension goes into major bump. I could see that as being helpful for rally.

As far as what is needed, the VOC cars and F-Cup volvos seem to be going really fast with just stock rear links. But that doesn't mean that an improvement couldn't be made, I just think that there's lower hanging fruit that need to be taken care of first.
Click to expand...
I wasn't annoyed by you, just irritated my crappy PC and wifi that lost all that effort.

I agree with the low hanging fruit theory, but you were in there cutting and welding already is why I brought it up.

On the Group A pics the upper mount is probably a good 2" above stock. If you look carefully you can also see where they lowered the bottom mount about an inch also.

Regarding the VOC cars... going fast compared to what? That seems kind of like an irrelevant comparison because it's not really comparing. We go fast in ITB compared to ITD. :lol: Slow compared to SPM.
 
Tuff240 said:
Pat, car is looking great and I admire how much you guys get done.
Are you putting real paint on or just bomb cans like the lemons car?
Click to expand...

I am going over there Friday to start the paint - for the engine bay/tub/trunk/etc that is going to be white, I am going to be brushing/rolling it on.

I might spraybomb the cage while the glass is out

But I found a connection via Ken with a spraybooth [Masters Auto Body in Daly City] that will be doing the exterior when it is ready.

I'm ordering up the last round of parts, and once I have everything ready I am going to go up there and get it running and driving. Thanks for the compliments. I've been happy with the progress but I'll call it a success when we finish Olympus.
 
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So a funny story to add to this

When I was looking for a rally shell, I started a wanted thread and started chasing down a white 244. I didn't end up buying it because the dumb kid jacked up the price for no legimate reason.

http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=327446

Fast forward a month later and the guy with the white 244 (me and Al already started on the black 244) calls me up saying he will give me the 244. I tell him I don't want it, but my brother in law - who had just done Lemons for the first time in what was my 245 - and a few friends wanted a car to build for Lemons. I told my brother in law it was free, but as it turned out the kid selling it insisted my brother in law give him $200 because he had to pay someone licensed by the court to remove his breathalyzer from the car.

I decided to sell my 245 Lemons car to my brother in law last week, and as part of the payment he gave me the white 244. With backfees and other reg issues I decided to kill it. The rally car needs its windows & regulators, a roof patch and other misc items. The 244 Lemons car needs the drivers quarter (pass quarter is dented/rusted so it's not a perfect shell).

Also with it being a roofless, doorless, and soon engineless and totally stripped interior tub, since it's close by home it will give me the perfect chance to do mock up for the rally cars dash and wiring


 
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^ I did find an empty thing of Narcan in the car, if that tells you anything.

Part 1 of the beefed up trans mount setup


Fixing the ghetto fix from a PO who jimmied the stock threads


Updated torque rod mounting


Seat mounting


Strut tower reinforcement


Cut out the panel from the white car


Artsy display of the mounts for the underbelly protection (nasty post welding fumes escaping the frame rail)


Al doing his thing


Test section for the interior/underbelly/engine bay paint. I hated the idea of painting the inside white at first but it makes since since it's easier to clean, you can spot cracks in the body easier and it will keep things cool in the car

 
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