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244Ti Stage Rally Project
- Thread starter pat244ti
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Location
- Santa Cruz CA
What was I hitting? Like 65? I couldn’t get much speed going because my brakes were not what I call predictable so I know I was likely slowing earlier than most
cwdodson88
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2011
- Location
- The Dalles, Oregon
I think he clocked you at 64 or 67, but said you were braking super early for the gate. He had everyone on radar at the first power pole as you crested the R hander all the way down to the gate.
It was hilarious that all 3 volvos were in the top 5 is for speed down that hill.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Location
- Santa Cruz CA
Yeah the brake pedal was manageable but it sunk quite a bit and locked up if you got on them too quick. I was just trying to bring the car back home
122power
dude
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2009
Damn dude thats some mad air. Nice job!
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Location
- Santa Cruz CA
So before I start making something custom, anyone ever see something like these used in a 240?
https://shop.klracing.se/sv/artiklar/bromsvag-komplett-med-box-och-cylindrar-mod1.html
https://www.compbrake.com/product/v...-box-balance-bar-kit-hydraulic-dual-cylinder/
Curious about clearance between the firewall and the strut tower, but I might give one of these a shot instead of building something [especially if the mounting pattern in close to spot on for a 240]
I can handle the extra brake effort if it means having a predictable pedal all around, especially with left foot braking
https://shop.klracing.se/sv/artiklar/bromsvag-komplett-med-box-och-cylindrar-mod1.html
https://www.compbrake.com/product/v...-box-balance-bar-kit-hydraulic-dual-cylinder/
Curious about clearance between the firewall and the strut tower, but I might give one of these a shot instead of building something [especially if the mounting pattern in close to spot on for a 240]
I can handle the extra brake effort if it means having a predictable pedal all around, especially with left foot braking
I don't think you would have an issue with Tilton short MCs (with the vertical pressure port). The compact Wilwoods might not leave enough room, as the pressure port is horizontal.
From KL via G-Translate: "Total length incl. Brake cylinder: 23cm"
Of note, the box appears to be about the length of the MC, which is 4.1in. So double that to 8.2" (~210mm)
Go measure how far the strut tower is away from the firewall
From KL via G-Translate: "Total length incl. Brake cylinder: 23cm"
Of note, the box appears to be about the length of the MC, which is 4.1in. So double that to 8.2" (~210mm)
Go measure how far the strut tower is away from the firewall
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- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Location
- Santa Cruz CA
A little update here, mostly centered around the prep I am doing for my next rally in one month.
For now, I've replaced the master cylinder but this time with a brand new unit [properly bled] and the brakes work like they should. I feel like now I can confidently dial in the bias because before everything just felt like ****.
The wheel bearings in the back are fixed. I replaced the stock tapered bearing setup with Timken RW131's. I was researching on here and found DrZiplok's thread and his short experience with them is good so I decided to give them a shot. It's a cylindrical bearing instead of tapered, same dimensions. Spins nicely and the 1/4-1/2 inch of play I had on each side is gone!
Boost is now up to 10 psi. Feels great but any more than that I can sense the clutch is going to have a bad time. The engine still has a leak from the oil pan being slightly bent so this winter after Tour De Forest it will all come out to fix the leak, install a Yoshifab clutch and flywheel as well as install the proper trans I have for this thing that is on the shelf [WCT5 w/lots of upgraded parts, 2.95 first and .79 fifth.
All that is left is servicing the struts and cleaning out the Oregon dust so I can put some Washington mud on it.
For now, I've replaced the master cylinder but this time with a brand new unit [properly bled] and the brakes work like they should. I feel like now I can confidently dial in the bias because before everything just felt like ****.
The wheel bearings in the back are fixed. I replaced the stock tapered bearing setup with Timken RW131's. I was researching on here and found DrZiplok's thread and his short experience with them is good so I decided to give them a shot. It's a cylindrical bearing instead of tapered, same dimensions. Spins nicely and the 1/4-1/2 inch of play I had on each side is gone!
Boost is now up to 10 psi. Feels great but any more than that I can sense the clutch is going to have a bad time. The engine still has a leak from the oil pan being slightly bent so this winter after Tour De Forest it will all come out to fix the leak, install a Yoshifab clutch and flywheel as well as install the proper trans I have for this thing that is on the shelf [WCT5 w/lots of upgraded parts, 2.95 first and .79 fifth.
All that is left is servicing the struts and cleaning out the Oregon dust so I can put some Washington mud on it.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Location
- Santa Cruz CA
I know it's less ideal for TDF than it was for OTR, but I bought an iPD plate. My friend with a TIG is coming over with a bunch of scraps he has to beef it up and extend it out a little bit. We're also going to beef up the tank guard [aka the chopped up tank] a little for the event. It took a good whack at OTR, guessing the landing on Boyd.
- Joined
- Nov 19, 2002
- Location
- Northern Washington
I used a VW Scirocco thick aluminum skid plate. Heavy, but it took years of abuse.
Mounting the front of it on Volvo round Trans mounts did good things for how it crashed over BFR's.
Mounting the front of it on Volvo round Trans mounts did good things for how it crashed over BFR's.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Location
- Santa Cruz CA
I did a nice solution, I ended up buying my own iPD skidplate since it's already preformed and 1/8 which is a little less weight on the nose since it is all in front of the crossmember. Since it's useless for the oilpan I had my buddy weld some weldnuts to the crossmember and made a couple brackets that bolt off the existing rails that hold the weldnuts for the plastic underbody stuff. That holds up a beefier 1/4 plate over the oilpan I had bent up.
Fuel guard was just a bent 1/4 sheet covering the double skinned tank.
Tour De Forest was this weekend. I might have had too much fun, along with some anxiety from thinking I was going to drive off a cliff crawling at 5-10 mph after we already had lost ourselves in the notes and we encountered insanely dense fog on stage with zero visability on some night stages.
The day stages were kinda plagued with a lack of windshield wipers and a t-bolt clamp that is a hair too big for the turbo outlet.
Plus side of things, after I fixed it [with less boost and a regular hose clamp] I seemed to have entertained a few folks. Night stages we started to show much better speed. On stage 6 we were 8th quickest overall of 26 posted times & 3rd for 2WD behind John Hill in the Escort and Garth in the Toyota [I got Carl by 10 seconds too.] Just one stage but that was about the only stage where everything [notes, my duties and the car] were in decent sync.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/jqPYSlWP-E4" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>
ps thanks for the first free hit John
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NoSloVo
Member
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2003
- Location
- Stockholm/San Francisco
pretty cool ,, nice going!
Vol242vo
Keep it clean...
- Joined
- Feb 24, 2005
- Location
- Spokane, WA
Yes!
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Location
- Santa Cruz CA
Thanks
I am taking the truck and trailer back tonight and driving the rally car home from Oakley.
After that it is going into it's new home [a harbor freight garage I just bought] and getting torn apart for the winter.
Engine will be coming out to get all of the oil leaks fixed.
While the Yoshifab engine mounts have held up, I want to make the engine sit higher so I am switching to the Anderson Speed bracket/mount setup which should bring it closer to stock.
With those Yoshifab parts leaving I will be adding a few other items from Josh - hopefully a microsquirt setup, T04E and a clutch and flywheel. That microsquirt setup will mean a few other changes in the fuel system too.
The transmission in this car now which has been in these past two rallies was bought off CL in Oakland from a guy who definitely did sideshows with it, so the fact it has held up means it's good stuff. Besides on transits I have no issues with the gearing. I have a built trans waiting to go in however so I might opt for it.
Couple of other changes in the works. Hoping to run Olympus in the spring. I might be renting the car out to a friend and trying my hand at codriving for Oregon Trail after that. I want to become more active as a navigator over time.
I am taking the truck and trailer back tonight and driving the rally car home from Oakley.
After that it is going into it's new home [a harbor freight garage I just bought] and getting torn apart for the winter.
Engine will be coming out to get all of the oil leaks fixed.
While the Yoshifab engine mounts have held up, I want to make the engine sit higher so I am switching to the Anderson Speed bracket/mount setup which should bring it closer to stock.
With those Yoshifab parts leaving I will be adding a few other items from Josh - hopefully a microsquirt setup, T04E and a clutch and flywheel. That microsquirt setup will mean a few other changes in the fuel system too.
The transmission in this car now which has been in these past two rallies was bought off CL in Oakland from a guy who definitely did sideshows with it, so the fact it has held up means it's good stuff. Besides on transits I have no issues with the gearing. I have a built trans waiting to go in however so I might opt for it.
Couple of other changes in the works. Hoping to run Olympus in the spring. I might be renting the car out to a friend and trying my hand at codriving for Oregon Trail after that. I want to become more active as a navigator over time.
It is so much cheaper!
Great job on the rally Pat, wish I could have been there at the end to celebrate with you and the crew! By the time we got the broken car out of the woods and back to civilization it was almost 1am!
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Location
- Santa Cruz CA
That was a bummer you guys went off! Did something break or did he go in too hot? I want to say it looked like the same corner that got someone during the daytime run.
LC4CARL
Aero challenged
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2008
- Location
- Vancouver, WA
First class!
Something broke when shifting into 3rd about 100ft after the start, we just coasted into a spot that wasn't in the way and was easy to tow the car from.
3rd overall sure would have been a fun spot to be in on the podium
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2002
- Location
- Santa Cruz CA
Damn, it's been 5 years.
Early 2020 I had plans to rally the car at both Olympus and Oregon Trail, but a double whammy of things happened. First in February, I had a skateboarding accident and suffered a very bad concussion. I was told my doctors to avoid any activity that could result in hitting my head again for 6-12 months. Than COVID happened, and rallying and just about everything else stopped.
More life stuff happened that can be read about in the thread for my 1800ES. I got diagnosed with COPD in March 2021 after being ill for many months and also my wife and I were expecting our first child in September that year. So car stuff went on the backburner.
I'm a stay at home dad for the most part now that does not work a whole lot, so racing in general is kind of on the backburner due to expense but its still something I hope to return to at some point in the future.
Back in 2018 Albert Kun helped me get a low mile well taken care of B6304 mocked up into a 79 Bertone I got for free from some guys who were LS swapping their grandpas car. We were gonna do Lemons racing with it, but over time with team members moving across the country it was sort of forgotten about. After the teammate who was storing it moved to Tennessee, I moved it to another friends property in the far-east bay in Knightsen CA. A year later, those friends sold the property and were moving to Alabama. So the Bertone came home to my house with a bunch of other 240's I had recently purchased from an estate sale.
My new plan with the Bertone is to use it as a new road race shell, and transfer everything over from my old 83 244ti racecar so I can preserve that shell and fix some of the damage it's taken on over a half dozen races [well, mainly the shunt from it's first race...]
The Bertone was incredibly dirty, so I removed everything from the car including the drivetrain, scrubbed it with degreaser and pressure washed the entire inside/outside and underneath the car.
With the B6304 just sitting there, I thought about what to do with it. Al made some really nice mounts that were stylized after how Lankku did his.
Rewind back to fall 2020. I bought a first gen RX7 rally car for weird reasons, wanted to put a 5 cylinder in it and bought a ton of parts to do so, including a DeeWorks adapter for a T5 transmission, McLeod hydraulic throwout bearing, Sachs 707 pressure plate, Centerforce disc, a stock 850 flywheel and a 960 bellhousing.
I sold the RX7 in early 2022 and still had all the parts laying around. I was thinking about putting the 5 cylinder in the 244 rally car, but needed to do something for engine management.
Motronic 4.4 was an option, but was complicated and has its limits. MaxxECU was another option, but between money and some personal reasons [not against the brand itself....] I leaned against it.
One day I was looking on Dave Barton's page and found an easter egg of sorts right there in plain sight. He offers a premade, plug and play wiring harness for 240's to run a B6304 using the electronics found in a 94 960. It was not the 5 cylinder like I was thinking about, but with a B6304 and mounts already at my disposal I figured why not. So I bought it
b6304 conversion harness by Dave Barton
The factory exhaust manifolds for the b6304 are quite restrictive, so I bought a inexpensive BMW m50 header and a whiteblock flange to modify since the port spacing is ridiculously close [would not call it perfect]
I've also sourced the ECU from a 94, as well as all of the appropriate sensors to work with it.
The T5 currently in my rally car is a poor candidate for racing, but I've used it anyways. It's a stock non WC T5 I got for $200 from a guy who clearly used it in Oakland sideshows, but it works
The RX7 came with a freshly rebuilt V8 WCT5. I kept it after I sold the car, but it was missing the input shaft which I gave back to the guy who built it for one of his other cars, since he modified it to work with a rotary. I picked up a new 23T input shaft last week, just waiting on a few tools and such so I can get started with pressing some new bearing in as well as being able how much I need to shim the shaft. I will also need to work on setting up the hydro TO bearing. For a pilot bearing, I'm using the 17x30x10mm NTN unit [6003LLBC3] Alex Buchka found out works.
I was asked to give an update on this, as well as the B6304 swap so that's about all for now. My current plan is to actually run this engine in my 84 GL first before the rally car, because I feel like daily driving a car that looks like a daily driver to shake down a race car drivetrain is easier/safer than driving a full blown racecar around on the street. I'm also doing some coachwork to the rally car at the moment, which I will do my next update on
Early 2020 I had plans to rally the car at both Olympus and Oregon Trail, but a double whammy of things happened. First in February, I had a skateboarding accident and suffered a very bad concussion. I was told my doctors to avoid any activity that could result in hitting my head again for 6-12 months. Than COVID happened, and rallying and just about everything else stopped.
More life stuff happened that can be read about in the thread for my 1800ES. I got diagnosed with COPD in March 2021 after being ill for many months and also my wife and I were expecting our first child in September that year. So car stuff went on the backburner.
I'm a stay at home dad for the most part now that does not work a whole lot, so racing in general is kind of on the backburner due to expense but its still something I hope to return to at some point in the future.
Back in 2018 Albert Kun helped me get a low mile well taken care of B6304 mocked up into a 79 Bertone I got for free from some guys who were LS swapping their grandpas car. We were gonna do Lemons racing with it, but over time with team members moving across the country it was sort of forgotten about. After the teammate who was storing it moved to Tennessee, I moved it to another friends property in the far-east bay in Knightsen CA. A year later, those friends sold the property and were moving to Alabama. So the Bertone came home to my house with a bunch of other 240's I had recently purchased from an estate sale.
My new plan with the Bertone is to use it as a new road race shell, and transfer everything over from my old 83 244ti racecar so I can preserve that shell and fix some of the damage it's taken on over a half dozen races [well, mainly the shunt from it's first race...]
The Bertone was incredibly dirty, so I removed everything from the car including the drivetrain, scrubbed it with degreaser and pressure washed the entire inside/outside and underneath the car.
With the B6304 just sitting there, I thought about what to do with it. Al made some really nice mounts that were stylized after how Lankku did his.
Rewind back to fall 2020. I bought a first gen RX7 rally car for weird reasons, wanted to put a 5 cylinder in it and bought a ton of parts to do so, including a DeeWorks adapter for a T5 transmission, McLeod hydraulic throwout bearing, Sachs 707 pressure plate, Centerforce disc, a stock 850 flywheel and a 960 bellhousing.
I sold the RX7 in early 2022 and still had all the parts laying around. I was thinking about putting the 5 cylinder in the 244 rally car, but needed to do something for engine management.
Motronic 4.4 was an option, but was complicated and has its limits. MaxxECU was another option, but between money and some personal reasons [not against the brand itself....] I leaned against it.
One day I was looking on Dave Barton's page and found an easter egg of sorts right there in plain sight. He offers a premade, plug and play wiring harness for 240's to run a B6304 using the electronics found in a 94 960. It was not the 5 cylinder like I was thinking about, but with a B6304 and mounts already at my disposal I figured why not. So I bought it
b6304 conversion harness by Dave Barton
The factory exhaust manifolds for the b6304 are quite restrictive, so I bought a inexpensive BMW m50 header and a whiteblock flange to modify since the port spacing is ridiculously close [would not call it perfect]
I've also sourced the ECU from a 94, as well as all of the appropriate sensors to work with it.
The T5 currently in my rally car is a poor candidate for racing, but I've used it anyways. It's a stock non WC T5 I got for $200 from a guy who clearly used it in Oakland sideshows, but it works
The RX7 came with a freshly rebuilt V8 WCT5. I kept it after I sold the car, but it was missing the input shaft which I gave back to the guy who built it for one of his other cars, since he modified it to work with a rotary. I picked up a new 23T input shaft last week, just waiting on a few tools and such so I can get started with pressing some new bearing in as well as being able how much I need to shim the shaft. I will also need to work on setting up the hydro TO bearing. For a pilot bearing, I'm using the 17x30x10mm NTN unit [6003LLBC3] Alex Buchka found out works.
I was asked to give an update on this, as well as the B6304 swap so that's about all for now. My current plan is to actually run this engine in my 84 GL first before the rally car, because I feel like daily driving a car that looks like a daily driver to shake down a race car drivetrain is easier/safer than driving a full blown racecar around on the street. I'm also doing some coachwork to the rally car at the moment, which I will do my next update on
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