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3.0 PRV -B280E cams?

it was Ed at Delorean Europe that told me that you cant put odd-fire cams on even-fire crank.

Is just a valve timing issue. Measure valve events with a correctly set up degree wheel on the crankshaft.

Many years ago I hired an intelligent machinist to drill holes in cam gears such that they can be installed in different positions to get cam timing just so.

Speaking of cam timing.... anyone who uses a reground cam will do themselves a favor in verifying that all cam events are timed right for all cylinders. Lot of work but better done before starting it up. Ask how I know. Grrrrr....
funny story John, i thought i had a set, as i bought a B280 along with a few other engines from a forum member. however it seems at some point they got robbed off the b280 as it had the same style rockers a b27 or 8 would have. however i expressed my concern to my contact, and he said when he has the performance cams ground, he also has the rockers resurfaced and parkerized, along with mildly opening the oiling holes, which in his experience, has allowed his camshafts to live. hopefully i will be in the same boat.

The aluminum rocker arms were only available via the parts department at Volvo. I never set valves in a B-280 that had them. Always steel.

Those rocker arms in photos all look to be steel. A magnet will quickly tell you if they are steel or not.
 
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F..k, they had a aluminium color in my old eyes, they are steel, checked with a magnet.. back to Square one then.:/
 
The turbo engine from my rallycar is available for adoption. It has H-beams, forged 93mm pistons, aluminum rocker arms, excellent very low hours T-4 made up for the engine.
 
Because you have altered the postion on crankshaft for the middle rods, the piston will travle more or less to come to TDC, but the camshaft travle the same, and that means that cam lobes will not be in the same position between odd-fire and even-fire crank, but diffrans will be small, and it maby work, but you will probably lose power, i dont know the diffans, but my guess is about 5 degree only on the middle cylinders, all other will be the same between odd and even-fire.

Difficult to explain without being there:

When you look at the left-right degree split on each crank position (first row, for example), odd-fire piston on one bank reach TDC at different crank degrees compared to even-fire piston on that same bank.
Each row will have the same offset. More degrees for a more choppy sound in odd-fire. Smoother (less choppy) intake and exhaust pulses on even-fire. If it’s like all the rest of the odd/even V6s in the world, odd-fire cranks are stronger.
So what John says about changing camshaft timing is correct.
As far as the “center piston” comment, i have no clue.

*edit: what i said about changing left-right cam timing pertains to overhead-cam V engines. a cam-in-block V engine will have the timing stagger in the lobes.
 
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Difficult to explain without being there:

When you look at the left-right degree split on each crank position (first row, for example), odd-fire piston on one bank reach TDC at different crank degrees compared to even-fire piston on that same bank.
Each row will have the same offset. More degrees for a more choppy sound in odd-fire. Smoother (less choppy) intake and exhaust pulses on even-fire. If it’s like all the rest of the odd/even V6s in the world, odd-fire cranks are stronger.
So what John says about changing camshaft timing is correct.
As far as the “center piston” comment, i have no clue.

*edit: what i said about changing left-right cam timing pertains to overhead-cam V engines. a cam-in-block V engine will have the timing stagger in the lobes.
I have looked at the cranks, and now i understand what you mean, But Ed at Delorean Europe that told me that you cant put odd-fire cams on even-fire crank, he has some nice camshafts that i want, need to convince him that we only need to cange came timing, he has probably never tought about it.
 
Mike the odd firing cranks are iron. Even firing cranks are splayed journal forged steel. Both use same large main bearings. Both are plenty strong. I never had a crankshaft issue in any of them. Just broken pistons and rods until it got forged pistons and H-beam rods. There is a forged steel odd firing crank for (if failing memory serves) 86mm stroke. It is a race only thing of which there were but a few ever made.
 
The turbo engine from my rallycar is available for adoption. It has H-beams, forged 93mm pistons, aluminum rocker arms, excellent very low hours T-4 made up for the engine.
i think i saw a post on facebook or something, is it in oregon currently? something like that.
 
*edit: what i said about changing left-right cam timing pertains to overhead-cam V engines. a cam-in-block V engine will have the timing stagger in the lobes.
Yes, this was the comparison I was trying to make, but its very difficult to put it into text (at least for me). With the only change essentially being you are advancing or retarding a bank of cylinder in unison, because of the SOHC design of the engine, the cam timing gets advanced or retarded to compensate. However in contrast to an old even/odd fire buick with a cam in block arrangement with one cam, now you run into a situation where half the lobes on the one cam now need to advance/retard depending on configuration.
in conclusion when the cam is isolated to one bank - no changed needed other than properly phasing to the crank.
 
Yeah. In Oregon. I’d like to have it but don’t see it happening.
John aren't you in Arizona? if you REALLY want it, I am in central Washington, and my father in law is in Arizona, I am sure I could help figure a way to get it to you if you wanted to buy it off him.
Truthfully, probably cheaper to ship it. I get pallet crates for free from work, I could crate it up and drop it into the back of a big rig. Wouldn't be the first time I shipped an engine from there...
 
John aren't you in Arizona? if you REALLY want it, I am in central Washington, and my father in law is in Arizona, I am sure I could help figure a way to get it to you if you wanted to buy it off him.
Truthfully, probably cheaper to ship it. I get pallet crates for free from work, I could crate it up and drop it into the back of a big rig. Wouldn't be the first time I shipped an engine from there...
Thanks, but these days I get to be happy with the daily driver.

Much as I’d like to have the rallycar again this just isn’t in the cards.
 
i found a Race engine builder in Sweden, that make Steel camshafts, i think he have 3 diffrent versions, he also have steel rockers, and also adjustable camgears, he make engines that is FIFA correct, that mean that the engines is odd-fire and it is not allowed to use other then stock ignition so the limit is for what i can understand about 7700rpm, with modern ignition they can rev engine and produce power upp to over 9000rpm and more, i dont know what rpm the stock crank will do?, but with this 2.8l odd-fire engine with 3 weber 48 and 7700rpm they managed to put out about 320hp, if they were allowed to use better ignition the power would probably be MUTCH more.=), then think what power a even-fire with the better heads and bigger valves and 3.0l, modern ignition and 9000rpm+... wooow...maby close to 400?..:D
 
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High rpm ignition with an odd-fire is an animal all on its own. Are you 100% certain there's no way to sneak an even-fire crank into your FIFA engine? I guess an odd-fire has ignition every 90-150-90-150 (crank degrees), vs a v8 thats every 90, but that being said, an even fire is every 120 which is much easier on the ignition system at high rpm. I have often wondered if a person could use a stock distributor as a trigger, and use it to run a module from https://performancedistributors.com/ to a coil that is more suited to high rpm than a stock one. all of this would make for a stock looking engine, but allow it to perform at much higher rpm.
for comparison, a stock GM HEI starts to get really unpredictable above 5500 rpm, the guys are performance distributors have ignition modules that i have personally used in v8s singing to 7k+, and the ignition stays right on the money.

Just some ideas? Here is an even vs odd fire distributor trigger for anyone curious.
 

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i found a Race engine builder in Sweden, that make Steel camshafts, i think he have 3 diffrent versions, he also have steel rockers, and also adjustable camgears, he make engines that is FIFA correct, that mean that the engines is odd-fire and it is not allowed to use other then stock ignition so the limit is for what i can understand about 7700rpm, with modern ignition they can rev engine and produce power upp to over 9000rpm and more, i dont know what rpm the stock crank will do?, but with this 2.8l odd-fire engine with 3 weber 48 and 7700rpm they managed to put out about 320hp, if they were allowed to use better ignition the power would probably be MUTCH more.=), then think what power a even-fire with the better heads and bigger valves and 3.0l, modern ignition and 9000rpm+... wooow...maby close to 400?..:D
adjustable cam gears for the prv? im intrigued. whats he want for them? i was going to use offset keys on the crank to adjust the cam timing, but there's only so many options going that route.
 
High rpm ignition with an odd-fire is an animal all on its own. Are you 100% certain there's no way to sneak an even-fire crank into your FIFA engine? I guess an odd-fire has ignition every 90-150-90-150 (crank degrees), vs a v8 thats every 90, but that being said, an even fire is every 120 which is much easier on the ignition system at high rpm. I have often wondered if a person could use a stock distributor as a trigger, and use it to run a module from https://performancedistributors.com/ to a coil that is more suited to high rpm than a stock one. all of this would make for a stock looking engine, but allow it to perform at much higher rpm.
for comparison, a stock GM HEI starts to get really unpredictable above 5500 rpm, the guys are performance distributors have ignition modules that i have personally used in v8s singing to 7k+, and the ignition stays right on the money.

Just some ideas? Here is an even vs odd fire distributor trigger for anyone curious.
it is not me that build FIFA engine, i can use what ever i want, im going even-crank, i have been told that you cant use the distributor on high rpm, to mutch strain on the chain, i probably gonna use separate ignition coil directly on the plugs and trigger system on flywheel., i have send a question about prices, but no answer yet.
 
I am sure you can come up with something over there, but if not, LSdelorean sells a modified 3.0l serpentine belt pulley with crank trigger originally designed for running efi using megasquirt or something along those lines.


1736124977173.png
 
i want my setup to look similar like this, with teeth pullys.
and here are my Ultima mk2 racing in England in the 80´s

 

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Coils on plugs is very easy and utterly reliable.
50mm IDA-3 look-alike throttle bodies can be had with internal injectors. Carburetors are such a pain compared with modern management. Programmable management will run exactly the way it is programmed to.
Where you can; let the bent six really yell! Just be sure you are OK with bearing speeds.
 
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