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A cam or IPD VX cam? Auto DD

comanche250 said:
Would the IPD turbo cam be similar enough to the stock T cam to be worthwhile?
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It follows a similar theme but does have more duration and therefore overlap than the T. That said it does have a good increase in lift.

The IPD turbo is essentially a clone of the Enem V15 from Sweden, which comes in both NA and turbo flavors. The only real difference there is the overlap. Less for the turbo, more for the NA.

I assume that since you are going for more power that you don't really care about the engine becoming interference? The nearly 12mm of lift the IPD turbo cam brings to the table will likely make your engine an interference one.

There is though a metallurgy thread about the IPD turbo cam that has folks doubting their quality as of late. Weird wear patterns observed by a few people. If you are shelling out $250 + shipping then it is $100-150 more to just order a V15 from Sweden that won't exhibit weird wear.
 
spock345 said:
It follows a similar theme but does have more duration and therefore overlap than the T. That said it does have a good increase in lift.

The IPD turbo is essentially a clone of the Enem V15 from Sweden, which comes in both NA and turbo flavors. The only real difference there is the overlap. Less for the turbo, more for the NA.

I assume that since you are going for more power that you don't really care about the engine becoming interference? The nearly 12mm of lift the IPD turbo cam brings to the table will likely make your engine an interference one.

There is though a metallurgy thread about the IPD turbo cam that has folks doubting their quality as of late. Weird wear patterns observed by a few people. If you are shelling out $250 + shipping then it is $100-150 more to just order a V15 from Sweden that won't exhibit weird wear.
Click to expand...
hmmmmm. If the IPD/Enem cam will give me the same low end performance with a better mid/top end, I would probably go for that. Interference doesn't scare me, this is my first non-interference motor after all, I just keep an eye on the belts.
 
OVERDRIVE said:
I wouldn't shave the head for a T, read up on dynamic compression ratios. 1mm shaved off and a V is similar dynamic compression ratio to a T with a stock head, a T actually raises the compression ratio of the B230F. I'm exploring this right now. 8V are limited when it comes to short duration (torque) cams because the ramp can only be so fast and there aren't any good options between the T and V imo. In the V8 world you can get a cam with the duration of the T but as much lift as the hottest 8V aftermarket cams.

This is a good read for the benefits of reducing the piston to head clearance: https://pbase.com/stealthfti/b230ftshortblock

The valve events thread sticked in perf/mod has a spreadsheet inside that shows dynamic compression calculations. It's a little spotty so I'd double check the work but it's a good reference.

In this video they dyno'd an A cam advanced, along with other "torque" cams
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Did you ever try running tighter clearances on the t-cam to drop the DCR?

Quick math shows the DCR to be in an acceptable range for pump gas.
 
culberro said:
Did you ever try running tighter clearances on the t-cam to drop the DCR?

Quick math shows the DCR to be in an acceptable range for pump gas.
Click to expand...
You know I haven't actually checked my valve clearance yet. How big of a difference would that make? I've been out of doing it since I'd have to order shims, and ignorance is bliss.
 
culberro said:
Did you ever try running tighter clearances on the t-cam to drop the DCR?

Quick math shows the DCR to be in an acceptable range for pump gas.
Click to expand...
I didn't shim it tighter, I didn't have large enough shims to get under .015". I still have the sheet of the shims I used, I could order them and try again. It ran good at WOT, idle was rough. So much cranking pressure and the weak 240 mounts just made it wobble roughly, kinda hard to explain. It idled as nicely as the V basically is an easy way to put it. I did run premium and it did seem to fix the detonation I got but drivability was still not amazing.
 
I ran an A for a few years, but I would say that the tighter lobe separation it has makes the idle quality and very low rpm performance kinda crummy. Mine is an M47 car, so the gearing masked it a little. I switched to a V and it was better all around, and now use a VX. All my changes have been to move toward something that a MAF likes better (less overlap) in an effort to provide better daily performance. Like you I rarely see the high side of 4000 rpm and fuel economy and ease of cruise is paramount to power. The car recently returned 31.3 mpg on a 186 mile highway ride, so I can't be mad at that. I have a T cam at my disposal and I'm considering it.

This is all after shaving the head, though. First things first.
 
OVERDRIVE said:
I didn't shim it tighter, I didn't have large enough shims to get under .015". I still have the sheet of the shims I used, I could order them and try again. It ran good at WOT, idle was rough. So much cranking pressure and the weak 240 mounts just made it wobble roughly, kinda hard to explain. It idled as nicely as the V basically is an easy way to put it. I did run premium and it did seem to fix the detonation I got but drivability was still not amazing.
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Huh, it really sounds like something is off on your setup. It shouldn't idle rough from just the compression ratio change.
comanche250 said:
You know I haven't actually checked my valve clearance yet. How big of a difference would that make? I've been out of doing it since I'd have to order shims, and ignorance is bliss.
Click to expand...
Paging @shoestring because they actually did the measurements.
From what I recall, you can change the duration around 15deg by going to a tighter lash of around 0.008" vs the 0.014-0.016" that most people set their cams at. The valvetrain also gets MUCH quieter with tighter lash, and everything is a lot happier in the valvetrain.
 
culberro said:
Huh, it really sounds like something is off on your setup. It shouldn't idle rough from just the compression ratio change.
Click to expand...
Yeah I'm not sure what it was. I went through everything trying to get some chips to work. Cam gear didn't leave the belt so it wasn't off timing as seen by the performance I got. Flat top B23 should be the same dcr, no idea why mine wasn't super happy.
 
OVERDRIVE said:
Yeah I'm not sure what it was. I went through everything trying to get some chips to work. Cam gear didn't leave the belt so it wasn't off timing as seen by the performance I got. Flat top B23 should be the same dcr, no idea why mine wasn't super happy.
Click to expand...
If it's idling rough it really sounds like cam timing might be off. I'd double check and make sure the TDC on the balancer is actually at TDC (I always use a long phillips screw driver or a 3/8 extension for this).

I picked up a 244 that was idling rough-ish and had OK power (not great, but it was like 250k), but it would ping on a few steep hills. Turns out the timing belt was setup 1-tooth retarded. That same engine used a vx3 cam with a 1mm shaved head and it never had pinging issues with 87 in 105F heat with the AC blasting 34F vent temps. Just a data point.
 
spock345 said:
It follows a similar theme but does have more duration and therefore overlap than the T. That said it does have a good increase in lift.

The IPD turbo is essentially a clone of the Enem V15 from Sweden, which comes in both NA and turbo flavors. The only real difference there is the overlap. Less for the turbo, more for the NA.

I assume that since you are going for more power that you don't really care about the engine becoming interference? The nearly 12mm of lift the IPD turbo cam brings to the table will likely make your engine an interference one.

There is though a metallurgy thread about the IPD turbo cam that has folks doubting their quality as of late. Weird wear patterns observed by a few people. If you are shelling out $250 + shipping then it is $100-150 more to just order a V15 from Sweden that won't exhibit weird wear.
Click to expand...

A question here; does the Enem V15 NA make a B230F interference then?

Also, does the T cam make it interference?

Thanks.
 
culberro said:
Paging @shoestring because they actually did the measurements.
From what I recall, you can change the duration around 15deg by going to a tighter lash of around 0.008" vs the 0.014-0.016" that most people set their cams at. The valvetrain also gets MUCH quieter with tighter lash, and everything is a lot happier in the valvetrain.
Click to expand...
Hello yes I'm here. I had to go back and look at the cam page. So on a KL T3 that we recently did, the difference between a 0.010" lash and a 0.015" that we normally use was 13* intake and 14* exhaust. So yeah, a ton. I might imagine that this aftermarket cam might even have faster ramps than a stock camshaft, so with a Volvo cam the difference might be larger than that. My Mike Jones grind asks for 0.011"/0.012".
 
If you don't mind shelling out the shekals. The V15 is one of the best all around DD street cams. It's only medium duration at 256 so you don't have the exhaust reversion and the lift is decent at 11.9mm or so. I've used both n/a and turbo versions on street cars and had a very enjoyable experience. It actually made my n/a 245 easily go to about 100mph. While cruising at 2500 you could easily pass up to higher speed.
 
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