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Critique my 8V build

since I have no pratical advise in this category ,

My Only Critique is​


its not in my car !


Ahahaha nice build GL with more POWWAA shame the family wont ride with yah ! Maybe a Wrap for the pink and unicorns !
 
A little more on some feedback from Erland..

AGAP: "I usually change the ramps on them because his are too aggressive from constant acceleration to constant velocity"
Enem: "You could also run an Enem cam with C3 lobes in and C2 lobes out with 108-109 degrees of lobe separation. The very wide lobe separations like 114 degrees that are often suggested are for turbos with high back pressure"

It's worth mentioning that this is me talking to Erland about race cams, and they drive like race cams. They also require 37mm solid buckets due to lift and ramp. For an off the shelf cam that can be run with stock buckets and 33mm shims he suggested the KL Racing T5 which is a 12.9mm cam.

I should update my build thread..
 
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Stiggy Pop said:
This echoes what Erland said when we were chatting. In an email he wrote:

"Sometimes I had lobes and buckets look ugly after running in on cams from AGAP. Then I have polished the bucket on 600 emery on a flat plate and polished the lobe and after that it was OK"

And yes, the Erland special is a ripper! I've had people ask me if the car had a ported rotary swap because the idle chop is so boss.
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I was talking to a rally car builder in Sweden and their engine builder won't use AGAP anymore, too many cams destroying themselves.

I can't wait to have some good idle chop!
 
Stiggy Pop said:
A little more on some feedback from Erland..

AGAP: "I usually change the ramps on them because his are too aggressive from constant acceleration to constant velocity"
Enem: "You could also run an Enem cam with C3 lobes in and C2 lobes out with 108-109 degrees of lobe separation. The very wide lobe separations like 114 degrees that are often suggested are for turbos with high back pressure"

It's worth mentioning that this is me talking to Erland about race cams, and they drive like race cams. They also require 37mm solid buckets due to lift and ramp. For an off the shelf cam that can be run with stock buckets and 33mm shims he suggested the KL Racing T5 which is a 12.9mm cam.

I should update my build thread..
Click to expand...
I'd love to see a dyno graph of your setup. I bet the bottom end is better than most, but it feels lacking due to the crazy top end.
It's like running a race cam and high CR, you'll usually never lose any power/torque over a smaller cam and lower CR but the top end just makes it feel that way.
 
culberro said:
I'd love to see a dyno graph of your setup. I bet the bottom end is better than most, but it feels lacking due to the crazy top end.
It's like running a race cam and high CR, you'll usually never lose any power/torque over a smaller cam and lower CR but the top end just makes it feel that way.
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I’m really going to try and do some dyno tuning next year. My plan is to work with Brett Willett and get the car set up on a Maxx ecu and a proper tune but I haven’t gotten that off the ground yet.. I’m eyeball deep renovating the top of my house instead.

And yes it does make some power down low! You just have to approach it with some purpose off idle to drive it smoothly. Data indicates it’s making more power everywhere compared to the RSI head including under 4k
 
Stiggy Pop said:
A little more on some feedback from Erland..

AGAP: "I usually change the ramps on them because his are too aggressive from constant acceleration to constant velocity"
Enem: "You could also run an Enem cam with C3 lobes in and C2 lobes out with 108-109 degrees of lobe separation. The very wide lobe separations like 114 degrees that are often suggested are for turbos with high back pressure"

It's worth mentioning that this is me talking to Erland about race cams, and they drive like race cams. They also require 37mm solid buckets due to lift and ramp. For an off the shelf cam that can be run with stock buckets and 33mm shims he suggested the KL Racing T5 which is a 12.9mm cam.

I should update my build thread..
Click to expand...
I read a little of your build thread. What's the tldr? You have a 2.5 AQ block and a 531 head? I saw you had a bunch of issues with the valve buckets.
 
culberro said:
I was talking to a rally car builder in Sweden and their engine builder won't use AGAP anymore, too many cams destroying themselves.
Click to expand...
oh no

non-shitpost edit: You can probably run a pretty big cam to match big turbo. Backpressure is the big determinant and why so many turbo setups have small cams/low overlap.
 
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CAPT_BLOTTO said:
I read a little of your build thread. What's the tldr? You have a 2.5 AQ block and a 531 head? I saw you had a bunch of issues with the valve buckets.
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I've had a few iterations, but it's a built 2.3 block which I previously ran with an RSI Stage 2 530 head and RSI stage 3 cam. Then I changed the whole valvetrain and put in a custom grind cam from Kyrk motorsports, had an issue with the buckets and now have a ported 531 from Erland Cox with the same Kyrk cam.

I'll start working on updating my thread because it's pretty interesting to look at the difference between the RSI head and Erland's head, particularly in combustion chamber shape. The part that surprised me the most is that the RSI head had 48/40 valves, Erland's head as 46/38 valves... and Erland's head was commanding 10-15% more fuel almost across the board as I was retuning it. A function of a better designed head and an interesting look at "bigger is not always better" when it comes to valve sizing.
 
Stiggy Pop said:
I've had a few iterations, but it's a built 2.3 block which I previously ran with an RSI Stage 2 530 head and RSI stage 3 cam. Then I changed the whole valvetrain and put in a custom grind cam from Kyrk motorsports, had an issue with the buckets and now have a ported 531 from Erland Cox with the same Kyrk cam.

I'll start working on updating my thread because it's pretty interesting to look at the difference between the RSI head and Erland's head, particularly in combustion chamber shape. The part that surprised me the most is that the RSI head had 48/40 valves, Erland's head as 46/38 valves... and Erland's head was commanding 10-15% more fuel almost across the board as I was retuning it. A function of a better designed head and an interesting look at "bigger is not always better" when it comes to valve sizing.
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I am very interested in seeing a log
 
I'm in talks with Erland to get myself an Erland special head. Once that happens, I'll be looking to sell my current head setup that made 560 whp.

My current head is a 530 with 48/40mm valves with an RSI stage 3 camshaft, valve springs and some port work. Never had any trouble with it and it's been driven across most of the country. RSI stage 3 is very streetable and not very aggressive. I don't have good data, but I thought it pulled harder than the IPD turbo cam on the butt dyno.

I would also say an 80mm throttle body is needlessly large for a 400 whp redblock. I use a 68mm bosch throttle body. You do definitely want an upgraded intake manifold though.

I use the stock Volvo hard fuel line with -6 AN soft line between hardline and fuel tank and engine.

I think a ARP head bolts and a MLS gasket is a great idea, but thickness will depend on your engine measurements. I use a .045" thickness to be close to stock but will probably change it when I get my new head.

I also think you'll be pushing your 3071 pretty hard to get 400 whp. Redblocks don't have good VE, and that turbo isn't super efficient so I think the setup will be working pretty hard to make the power you want.

By the way is that a TiAL turbine housing? Nice choice if so.
 
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CAPT_BLOTTO said:
It's too loud and scary for them. They rode it in once and were not fans. I've tried a bunch to get them mildly interested in dad's cars but other than the sim rig they couldn't care less. Maybe if I had a pink car with unicorns on it.
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Do I see one of these in your future?
1b47af835c1a3289a1d3648be4f8015c.jpg
 
t8fanning said:
Redblocks don't have good VE, and that turbo isn't super efficient so I think the setup will be working pretty hard to make the power you want.
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Isn't that because of the head design? I've always thought the block was not that different from the usual suspects, besides being a bit on the oversquared side
 
dalek said:
Isn't that because of the head design? I've always thought the block was not that different from the usual suspects, besides being a bit on the oversquared side
Click to expand...

The head, intake and exhaust manifold design. The exhaust manifold is fine here, but the intake and head aren't the best so his turbo will be working hard to make the power.
 
CAPT_BLOTTO said:
But with the valves and new intake should help those VE numbers.
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The intake should. The valves will help, but maybe not as much if the porting/combustion chamber shaping isn't there. Just throwing bigger valves in isn't necessarily the answer for good VE as @culberro has posted about.

I'm not saying it won't make the power you want. I'm just saying that it might be working harder to make it than originally thought.
 
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