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Dead cylinder for the first mile

M

morsing

Member
Joined
Jul 20, 2007
Location
Aylesbury, UK
Good afternoon,

I have been battling this problem for years and it is getting very frustrating as I am sure you can imagine. When I start from cold, cylinder #2 is dead for the first mile or so. Things I have gone through:

- New spark plugs
- New coil
- New HT leads
- Distributor pick-up plate/device was replaced for other reasons a few years ago
- New rotor and cap
- Tested the head gasket (to the best of my ability, see other thread)
- Compression is fine
- No start-up smoke
- It had new valve springs and valve stem seals a couple of years ago
- Went through a full fuel injection system check-up and adjustment a couple of years ago

So, I'm stumped.

The only thing I thought it could be, is the magnet "arms" flying past the pick-up in the distributor. The Haynes manual says the gap is adjustable, but it is not on my car. The gap is also 10x the size of what the Haynes manual says it should be, but it has also been like that.

Any ideas out there?

Regards,
Henrik Morsing
 
So if we're to assume compression is fine and the flow of air is fine, seems like a simple "misfire" to diagnose.

When the symptom occurs, what's not firing? No spark or no Fuel? It's always the #2? You can put a test light on the plug wire, and diagnose spark there....could be bad wire or connection, etc. If that's fine, have a NOID light for the injector lead? Is the injector getting it's power....could have a rotten wire in the loom somewhere.

This should quickly get to some fairly conclusive results.
 
What car and year? What computer system? And have you tried a different set of injectors? Just because there was a checkup that seemed fine doesn't mean that a intermittent injector problem.
 
If this car uses the magnetic pickup in the distributor like a older Kjet US model. Then the gap is set by carefully bending the little arms on the star wheel to the correct clearance. If I recall correctly it is .010" gap from the arm to the stationary post. on each arm.
 
Pull the injector and check for spray for the first bit of a cold start. Do the spark checks others have suggested. Compression passes so air should be good. If you can get a timing light and a separate spark indicator light, then you can watch the overall timing and see if #2's spark is consistent relative to #1 (which has all the timing info associated). If that cylinder's spark drifts in relative timing (constant speed through the test so it shouldn't) then that should help you understand what's happening.
 
Good morning and thanks all,

Car is listed in my signature, but to eliminate any confusion, 1989 240 B230E. CIS injection system (no wires and no computers).

- "And have you tried a different set of injectors?"

No, I'm 99.999% sure it's not an injector problem. Actually, I can just swap two of them and see if the dead cylinder moves. I will do that this weekend.

- "When the symptom occurs, what's not firing? No spark or no Fuel?"

Sounds and feels very "Sparky".

- "It's always the #2?"

Yup.

- "You can put a test light on the plug wire, and diagnose spark there....could be bad wire or connection, etc."

The timing gun does not flash when the problem occurs, however, Googling suggests that it will only flash if the spark plug actually sparks. This does not mean that the ignition system isn't trying, but if coolant is leaking onto the spark plug and it doesn't fire, the timing gun won't flash.
It's a wild theory, I know, but I don't know what else to go by.
Spark plug looks fine though, not oiled.

NOID?

- "If this car uses the magnetic pickup in the distributor like a older Kjet US model."

I'm guessing you are referring to the system listed in the Haynes manual, so no. The distance from the trigger arms to the pickup is more like 0.1-0.2" on my system and the arms go in between a gap in the pick-up. I can't really find a good photo and I can't find the ones I took when I had it all apart to measure, sadly.

- "Pull the injector and check for spray for the first bit of a cold start. "

Ok, will try that.

- "If you can get a timing light and a separate spark indicator light, then you can watch the overall timing and see if #2's spark is consistent relative to #1 (which has all the timing info associated). If that cylinder's spark drifts in relative timing (constant speed through the test so it shouldn't) then that should help you understand what's happening."

Not come across that before and not entirely sure what you mean, but I will look into that.

Regards,
Henrik Morsing
 
It's OK I believe you are describing the hall sensor pickup for your ignition. Try removing the spark plug from the known problem cylinder. In the morning before you start your car. You want to see if anything is getting on the plug and fouling it. It will smell like the appropriate chemical. I've had kjet injectors that seep gas when the car is powered down overnight. so you have a fouled plug or two in the morning till you clear it out. They usually don't have an ideal spray pattern and need to be cleaned or replaced.

You can do the gas seepage test by putting the injectors in the little clear jars and power up the fuel pumps by jumpering the fuses. There is a spec on how much dripping is allowed but in general it shouldn't be more than a drop or two.

Then you lift the plate and check the spray pattern.
 
dl242gt said:
It's OK I believe you are describing the hall sensor pickup for your ignition. Try removing the spark plug from the known problem cylinder. In the morning before you start your car. You want to see if anything is getting on the plug and fouling it. It will smell like the appropriate chemical. I've had kjet injectors that seep gas when the car is powered down overnight. so you have a fouled plug or two in the morning till you clear it out. They usually don't have an ideal spray pattern and need to be cleaned or replaced.

You can do the gas seepage test by putting the injectors in the little clear jars and power up the fuel pumps by jumpering the fuses. There is a spec on how much dripping is allowed but in general it shouldn't be more than a drop or two.

Then you lift the plate and check the spray pattern.
Click to expand...

Thanks, some good ideas there.
 
volvosruinedmylife said:
Have you looked st the plugs? Sounds like it could be either your headgasket leaking coolant into one of the cylinders or maybe an I Injector Is leaking fuel. Look st the plugs if you haven't
Click to expand...

I have, plug look fine, though I haven't actually checked before starting.

Car doesn't lose coolant, not in any big or consistent way anyway. I also tested the head gasket (see other thread).
 
Which cylinder is misfiring?

Move the injector to one cylinder, the plug, to another cylinder and then recheck if the misfire follows the parts swap. Cold compression ok?
 
Good morning all,

I think I found the culprit this morning. The cold-start injector appears to be leaking. I will get a new one and report back.

Thanks for all suggestions, the fuel leak ones steered me in the right direction (hopefully).

Regards,
Henrik Morsing
 
I have just realised that the air flow plate bellow has been looking wet for as many years as I have been having this problem. Could never figure out where it was coming from.

IMG_2154.jpeg
 
dl242gt said:
Dousing that thing with dried up gas from the cold start injector?
Click to expand...
I'm guessing so, although I can't quite figure out how it gets to the outside of the rubber. Must be dripping from between the plenum and throttle body? Is there a gasket there? Which has been ruined?

P.S. No idea how I get a new cold start injector, they seem to have been discontinued.
 
I took the injector out after running the car this morning and put it in a container to confirm the leak. Photos below was taken half an hour later.

Just a quick question, other than the O-ring, does it also need a paper gasket as it doesn't currently have one?

I have ordered a refurbished unit.

IMG_2212.jpeg

IMG_2211.jpeg
 
You can cover the hole for the injector and see if the car starts better. The cold start only uses the oring to seal it to the manifold. Make sure if you cover the hole it's something strong that can't get sucked into the manifold.
 
Apologies for the late update. I replaced the cold-start injector but the following day the car went to the body shop and I only picked it up yesterday.

The problem persists. Although the injector was leaking, that is not causing the dead cylinder.

P.S. I wonder if it could be an air leak.
 
Last edited:
Have you swapped injectors? I saw that you posted that you were going to, but didn't see a post that you had done the swap. Your symptoms are classic injector opening pressure, leaking, and/or really bad spray pattern. Good luck!
 
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