Hacked II: Getting a 1983 245 Back On the Road

[fatcatbestcat]

put dracos on or cringe

I crushed those dracos for gas money.

 

[v8volvo]

Pulling the cam means replacing some seals, so I guess if I go that route I'll need to order some, and at that point I might as well add a valve cover gasket and maybe some rad hoses to that order... things sorta snowball from here.

It's still the home stretch though. And now that you know how quick and easy the front belt system goes together, that won't take much time to put back on when you reach that point. Everything else can stay on there (covers, balancer, WP, etc). You won't even need to move the WP. Just take the cam pulley off the front, do the cam work, then slap the cam pulley back on there afterwards with the belt in it, like before. It won't fight you since you already have everything where it needs to be.

 

[fatcatbestcat]

It's still the home stretch though. And now that you know how quick and easy the front belt system goes together, that won't take much time to put back on when you reach that point. Everything else can stay on there (covers, balancer, WP, etc). You won't even need to move the WP. Just take the cam pulley off the front, do the cam work, then slap the cam pulley back on there afterwards with the belt in it, like before. It won't fight you since you already have everything where it needs to be.

I guess that's not so bad - for some reason I was thinking that I needed to remove the timing cover backplate, but I guess that's not attached to the cam in any way.

Still need to find the seals, though. I'm looking at a kit like you get from KGTrimning - although the description says it has a nice rubber gasket and not the nonsense cork one in the picture.

 

[v8volvo]

I guess that's not so bad - for some reason I was thinking that I needed to remove the timing cover backplate, but I guess that's not attached to the cam in any way.

Nope. You will be able to sneak the cam out of there with the inner cover tin in place no problem after removing the front sprocket and the four cam caps. Sometimes in a 240 due to more limited firewall clearance (vs a 700 series) you may need to bend the inner cover forward a little bit as you pull the nose of the cam out, but that is fine to do, it will go back to where it was without issue.

Remember the tip about very carefully noting the positions and directions of those cam caps. Be extra attentive because the factory stampings on them face various different directions and can result in confusion. Some of the stampings will face forwards and some will face backwards, and that is normal. The key is that you put everything back exactly in the way it was, and ignore what direction the stampings seem to be facing. If you try to get all the stampings facing the same way you'll end up trying to install a cap facing backwards and what happens after that is not pretty.

Still need to find the seals, though. I'm looking at a kit like you get from KGTrimning - although the description says it has a nice rubber gasket and not the nonsense cork one in the picture.

That's a nice kit, as long as it does in fact have the one-piece rubber/steel gasket instead of the cork set. But you don't really need the manifold gaskets, so if you have to buy the VC gasket and cam seals a la carte, you can always do that as well.

At last check, Volvo dealers still sold the VC gasket at a competitive price, if it doesn't seem to be turning up readily in the aftermarket.

 

[fatcatbestcat]

Nope. You will be able to sneak the cam out of there with the inner cover tin in place no problem after removing the front sprocket and the four cam caps. Sometimes in a 240 due to more limited firewall clearance (vs a 700 series) you may need to bend the inner cover forward a little bit as you pull the nose of the cam out, but that is fine to do, it will go back to where it was without issue.

Phew - that's a relief. In that case, pulling the cam doesn't sound too bad.

That's a nice kit, as long as it does in fact have the one-piece rubber/steel gasket instead of the cork set. But you don't really need the manifold gaskets, so if you have to buy the VC gasket and cam seals a la carte, you can always do that as well.

At last check, Volvo dealers still sold the VC gasket at a competitive price, if it doesn't seem to be turning up readily in the aftermarket.

I was actually about to just check out with KG, but they don't accept any of my methods of payment, and I don't really want to deal with an international money transfer for a $50 part.

I'm going to try with Volvo Toronto, who seem to have some of the parts needed - I need to get a glow plug relay anyways, and they might have it. Trouble is, it looks like a lot of the stuff on their site is on permanent backorder - or so it seems.

EDIT: Oof.

 

[nordmaschine]

Those are cylinder head gaskets, not valve cover gaskets. You don't need that. Yet.

Did you try to put a wrench on that rear bolt and whack it clockwise with a hammer a couple of times? It's like impact gun, but for tight places.

Also, in hope of not insulting you - you do realize that you want to turn the bolt clockwise - when looking at it while standing in front of the car, in order to loosen it?

 

[lookforjoe]

to have some of the parts needed - I need to get a glow plug relay anyways, and they might have it. Trouble is, it looks like a lot of the stuff on their site is on permanent backorder - or so it seems.

What's the number on the relay? I might have one, I'll look in my basement stash.

 

[fatcatbestcat]

Those are cylinder head gaskets, not valve cover gaskets. You don't need that. Yet.

Yep... I went through a bunch of manuals and external books for parts, and I finally got some actual PNs for the seals I need. Turns out the D24T-equipped cars got single-piece rubber gaskets and the poverty NA models got shafted with the awful cork gasket... <strike>decadent 740 bastards. </strike>

Did you try to put a wrench on that rear bolt and whack it clockwise with a hammer a couple of times? It's like impact gun, but for tight places.

I thought about it, but I really don't want to bust my valves.

Also, considering the only tool that I can even fit into that space between the firewall and the sprocket is the fancy offset wrench v8volvo lent to me, I'm not going to risk damaging the tools with a hammer.

Also, in hope of not insulting you - you do realize that you want to turn the bolt clockwise - when looking at it while standing in front of the car, in order to loosen it?

At first, I was worried I was turning it the wrong way, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I made sure of it.

What's the number on the relay? I might have one, I'll look in my basement stash.

I should clarify, the car didn't come to me with one. The story from the previous owner is that it "burst into flames" when he was bench-testing it to figure out why it didn't work. Still working on finding the PNs for it - all I know is that VP has them in blue.

 

[lookforjoe]

Ah - thought this was the one you needed

 

[fatcatbestcat]

Ah - thought this was the one you needed

I don't even know anymore - I've seen black/yellow/blue ones...

I think the black relays are for the early cars, like 1979-1982.

 

[lookforjoe]

I don't even know anymore - I've seen black/yellow/blue ones...

I think the black relays are for the early cars, like 1979-1982.

Pretty sure there's a control relay and then the actual glow plug relay - this one goes in the engine bay - 240s and 740s use it

 

[fatcatbestcat]

Pretty sure there's a control relay and then the actual glow plug relay - this one goes in the engine bay - 240s and 740s use it

Yep, you're absolutely right - it's the control relay for the cabin that I need.

Apparently it's possible to just bypass it and use a switch to turn the plugs on, so I might end up resorting to that if I can't get another one.

Would be nice to be employed when about to spend $350 on an order of gaskets, rad hoses and a single relay.

 

[nordmaschine]

I thought about it, but I really don't want to bust my valves.

Also, considering the only tool that I can even fit into that space between the firewall and the sprocket is the fancy offset wrench v8volvo lent to me, I'm not going to risk damaging the tools with a hammer.

You're not goint to bust valves that way, don't worry. Front is timed, isn't it? You can't whack it so hard it jumps teeth *and* bends valves. Even if the bolt was welded in there and you hit it with a 5kg hammer.

Pardon my (possible) ignorance, on 7/9 series, there is always enough space to put a combination wrench on there the wrong way - bend pointing towards engine. And from the pictures it seems like there is enough space on 2 series as well. Other trick with a combination wrench is to take another (17mm, in case of this 19mm bolt) wrench and hook its box end to open end of the wrench that has its box end on the bolt, that way you give yourself way more leverage. As with any tight bolt - jerks > applying steady torque. Just watch your knuckles!

Plus, I seem to recall that you bought a welder? Cheap tools + angle grinder + welder = speciality tools.



As for relays, I wouldn't worry about that, yet. But if you insist - you can always buy Mk2 Golf 1.6D/TD relay, wire it in so you get normal system operation/temperature controled timer, then wire output to trigger wire of a 80/100A relay (some US car starter relay?) and its output to glow plugs.

 

[fatcatbestcat]

Here's a non-relevant thread bump. Still waiting on cam seals and other small bits right now.

At some point, someone asked for an update on the 144... apparently it did not get crushed, but soon will!

Current owner still using pictures from when he towed it away in 2021.

In less 144-news, I managed to snag an NOS 240 block heater, which I may or may not install.

 

[fatcatbestcat]

So... some good news and some bad news.

I've had the car up on FBM and Kijiji for a little bit (as some of you may have noticed), mostly with the intention of motivating me to work on it again. This seems to have become a yearly occurrence for me. As you'd expect, I've had about thirty people say they want to see it running, and a few people have offered all manner of trades or cash offers. I'm not certain about whether or not I want to keep the car, and continue working on it, but we'll see where it goes.

I have at least been motivated enough to keep at it. The closer it is to running, the more motivated I feel.

Also, this is my first thread update on the new forum, and I'm really excited for actual typing tools and easy image embeds. Also, it looks like the missing pictures from my previous posts are visible, so at some point I can go through my drives and compare and reupload when I can.

Anyway, the car; first thing I set out to do was one last attempt at getting that rear cam sprocket off.

My absolute last chance was to use my breaker bar on it, and that
necessitated the removal of the hood. I wanted to avoid doing that since I had basically nowhere to put it. I also threw a thick bathroom mat under the wipers just in case something bad happened. I did not want to be replacing a windshield.

It really would not be that big a deal on a 7/9, but the firewall and hood clearance on the 240 really is not ideal for this. Spoiler alert, that didn't help me get it off. Someone before suggested I try putting a cheap wrench on it and hitting it with a hammer, and that didn't work either.

So, I moved to plan B; cam removal. I wanted to avoid doing this, since I was still waiting for cam seals... but being able to rotate the engine freely without risk of slamming pistons into valves was pretty appealing, considering the crank pulley wasn't fully bolted down or torqued yet.

First, though, I went about removing the injection pump to fix another problem that would've bit me somewhere down the line without addressing it; more on that in a moment.

So apart from the wacky timing belt situation, and possibly leaky injection pumps, the third headache for D24s is this heater hose that's routed directly under the injection pump. As you can imagine from the weird staining on it, diesel leaked out of the pump and onto this hose. I'm sure there's some way around it, but it's easiest to take the IP off to replace it.

I'm not going to deal with it right away, but soon enough I plan on putting a strong bend in it, and rerouting the hose around and away from the IP.

I've had a few people (from my for-sale listings) interrogate me on why I started taking it apart when it was running fine before and my response is that I wouldn't feel too great about selling the car with a pump leaking fuel everywhere, belts probably about to snap and a coolant hose about to explode.

Back to the car... it time to pull the cam.

It's actually quite incredible just how clean this motor is. Before getting into Volvos for the first time (with the 144), my prior experience had been with a couple small block Chevies that you could tell had never seen an oil change. Obviously this D24's been rebuilt (originally would've been green, not blue), and the story I was told (by the previous owner) is that the engine was rebuilt, and the car either sat or wasn't driven often for about thirteen years before he bought it. Allegedly only 2300 miles were put on it before it came into my ownership. I don't know how true that is, but it certainly is clean.

Anyways, I made sure to mark the caps and remove them in sequence. The front and rear caps come off first, then the two center ones.

Check it out - there's still sharpie in the lifter valley from the last tuneup!

Aaaand there's the cam out. It's also nice and clean - made sure to coat all the lobes with some fresh Castrol before wrapping it in a garbage bag and taking it inside. Soon enough, I'll try the impact gun on the bolt - which seems to be a bit rounded. Fortunately, v8volvo was kind enough to send me a replacement bolt and washer to alleviate this. My theory as to why it's so tight is that the engine was rebuilt outside of the car, and someone put that bolt on there with an impact gun of some kind set to full torque.


Oh, so for the bad news; I had placed an order for a whole top-end gasket/seal kit, with a valve cover gasket and cam seals. Unfortunately, something went wrong with the order (I made the mistake of making it right before the holidays), and there's absolutely no way I'll get everything in time. Realistically, I'm going to be reusing the cam seals. They're not hard or split, and they didn't leak before so...

Yeah, we'll see. Somehow I've gotten it into my head that if everything I want to do this week works out, I might have it running by the weekend.

 

[Broke4speed]

I did see the ad, but as a fellow project-switcher, I know how tough/irritating it is to constantly answer the questions of car friends who can't believe you're selling/why are you selling/it's almost done stick with it/etc. I'm glad to see that even though there's an ad up, you're still plugging away .

Winter truly is a rotten time for motivation, I'm in the same boat. I need to fill mine with coolant and bleed the clutch...and it'll probably sit until I can work with the garage door open and not see my breath. People from warm climates have no idea how much more FUN cars are when there's no frostbite involved, lol.

 

[fatcatbestcat]

I did see the ad, but as a fellow project-switcher, I know how tough/irritating it is to constantly answer the questions of car friends who can't believe you're selling/why are you selling/it's almost done stick with it/etc. I'm glad to see that even though there's an ad up, you're still plugging away .

Yep. Having some stable income would make me feel better about owning such a money pit. I keep sending out applications thinking "Okay, if this place hires me, I don't need to sell the 245". Nothing so far, but who knows - year ain't over yet.

 

[TilledChip]

I believe in u fartcart get this bread fix this car

 

[ortho stice]

I’m pretty sure NAPA can get you those cam seals in like a day. They’ve been used on basically every VAG diesel motor for 40 years (iirc). Imagine how hard you’ll kick yourself if after all this you have a Niagara Falls of 15w40 down the back of the motor because of a knicked cam seal.

 

[fatcatbestcat]

I’m pretty sure NAPA can get you those cam seals in like a day. They’ve been used on basically every VAG diesel motor for 40 years (iirc). Imagine how hard you’ll kick yourself if after all this you have a Niagara Falls of 15w40 down the back of the motor because of a knicked cam seal.

Yeah, you're right. NAPA does seem to have what they describe as cam seals for a '1983 Volvo 245 L6 diesel', but when I go check for an IDI 1.6 Rabbit of the same model year, I get results for the same part, but also a different part that looks closer to what I actually have. I cleaned up the seals that came out of my car, and checked the PNs... it's a Victor Reinz part that's apparently discontinued.



Although, now that I look at them on my computer, the left one looks much closer.