K-jet problem?

[Ashtong180]

TLR: car won’t hold an idle out of nowhere, presumed timing belt is off/ vacuum leak???
After owning my 85’ GLT turbo 245 for about 3 months, I’ve gotten used to its many quirks, one of the more persistent and concerning being the rough idle along with the late shifting. I was driving about 100 miles from Portland to Redmond and almost 20 miles away from our destination, my car stalled(auto) while cruising and would it start up. It would crank and crank and I could get it to idle (even more rough than before) if I were holding the throttle open and it definitely looks like what’s left of my motor mounts are kaput… luckily this was right after the 20+ miles of no service and being off the side of a huuuge valley, I couldn’t imagine if my car stalled and I couldn’t use my power brakes out there I am so grateful it broke down the second I got into a tiny little town. Thankfully as well I broke down in between the only dealership and auto parts store down there and got as much help as possible from some nice people. I checked the first of my suspicions for a long time running which would be the IAC and throttle body being clogged up, opened it up, clean as a whistle?? Checked fuel pump pressure, perfect. Checked spark, intake, vacuum leaks, and a bunch of other things I couldn’t name.. even checked the timing belt which was running a little higher (between 10-15 I believe?) but I shrugged it off due to be having to rev it to keep it alive… after hours of nothing, I unplug some sort of connecter that plugs into the IAC or what I believe to be the IAC that goes into the throttle body, and when unplugging that connecter, it decides it wants to idle, not for long or very well but it at least idles. Entire block is shaking all over the place. So I call a mechanic that has an open phone line today and tell them everything and they suspect it is the timing belt, and/or a vacuum leak which I thought we had crossed off the list… great. Any help is greatly appreciated. Because now my (only) car is 80 miles away from me and I won’t be able to tow it back and take it to a shop (if i even have the money) until Tuesday… thank you for reading!!!

 

[the_hairy_baboon]

shot mounts won't cause stalling, but can exacerbate shake (and shake of all the other components).

excessively bad shake can easily come from misfire (combustion torque imbalanced). Have you checked that your timing marks all align with distributor positioning? If the components aren't aligned you could easily have poor quality combustion.

 

[JohnLane]

OP any false air leak (air not measured by the air flow sensor flap) will make it not run. With crap engine mounts intake plumbing gets pulled this way and that. Thus; all intake plumbing is suspect. The charge cooler can split for a tough to find false air leak (rare). Secondary ignition is suspect. Distributor cap, rotor, plugs, wires. A fuel relay can fail to cause a non-running condition. Check fuses 5, 7 and 13. Use a test light with a real incandescent bulb on both sides of the fuse as a ‘volt meter; logic tester’ will tell you there is volts present but the fuse will not allow enough amperage to pass to operate a circuit. One, the other or both fuel pumps are old enough to have failed. Cam timing. All three marks must line up. Exhaust can be plugged (catalyst) but not usually until a misfire has been neglected for a while. The engine can also have a mechanical failure; though this is least common. Get to figuring it out. Tends to be easier at home with tools and easier access to needed parts.

 

[dl242gt]

What you will find is that you more than likely have two or three problems that are causing all of these issues. Vacuum air leaks are very common on these along with the fuel system issues like bad fuel pressure or control pressure. I would also agree with the suggestion about having an ignition problem, too.

 

[tbrcktch]

TLR: car won’t hold an idle out of nowhere, presumed timing belt is off/ vacuum leak???
After owning my 85’ GLT turbo 245 for about 3 months, I’ve gotten used to its many quirks, one of the more persistent and concerning being the rough idle along with the late shifting. I was driving about 100 miles from Portland to Redmond and almost 20 miles away from our destination, my car stalled(auto) while cruising and would it start up. It would crank and crank and I could get it to idle (even more rough than before) if I were holding the throttle open and it definitely looks like what’s left of my motor mounts are kaput… luckily this was right after the 20+ miles of no service and being off the side of a huuuge valley, I couldn’t imagine if my car stalled and I couldn’t use my power brakes out there I am so grateful it broke down the second I got into a tiny little town. Thankfully as well I broke down in between the only dealership and auto parts store down there and got as much help as possible from some nice people. I checked the first of my suspicions for a long time running which would be the IAC and throttle body being clogged up, opened it up, clean as a whistle?? Checked fuel pump pressure, perfect. Checked spark, intake, vacuum leaks, and a bunch of other things I couldn’t name.. even checked the timing belt which was running a little higher (between 10-15 I believe?) but I shrugged it off due to be having to rev it to keep it alive… after hours of nothing, I unplug some sort of connecter that plugs into the IAC or what I believe to be the IAC that goes into the throttle body, and when unplugging that connecter, it decides it wants to idle, not for long or very well but it at least idles. Entire block is shaking all over the place. So I call a mechanic that has an open phone line today and tell them everything and they suspect it is the timing belt, and/or a vacuum leak which I thought we had crossed off the list… great. Any help is greatly appreciated. Because now my (only) car is 80 miles away from me and I won’t be able to tow it back and take it to a shop (if i even have the money) until Tuesday… thank you for reading!!!

How's the progress on your issues, any updates? I agree with both of the last 2 replies. First check the fuses, just check them all, but especially both the pump, and pre pump. Then I'd check the fuel pump relay, (notorious for failure), I'd recommend just buy a new relay (from the volvo dealer), and install it (you most likely, have no idea how old that relay is)(and then you won't have to figure out if the relay is working or not). Even if your old one still works, you'll will need it at some point. Then you need to check for blown off/cracked/split/broken air/vacuum hoses, especially for the IAC. Also air intake hose going to the turbo, from the air filter/fuel distributor assembly, make sure of good connection. Also check turbo output hose to the intercooler for good connection, and for any splitting or tears. Also intercooler hose to the throttle valve on the intake manifold, for good connection and any leakage. If, after that, you still have a no start issue, you need to perform a fuel pressure test on the system. Requires a tester that is specifically set up for mechanical fuel injection (Bosch), that has, in addition to the gauge, the proper hoses, fittings, seals, and a control valve, to switch between system pressure, control pressure, and will also check your rest/residual pressure. This is the key test to your system, you will be able to check almost everything, from a bad pump, control pressure regulator(warm up regulator), to a bad pump check valve, leaking injectors. I suspect that your dying/no start is either relay or pump related (if all your air/vacuum hose are ok). And that your idle issues are injector related. Dirty injectors are a very common problem. Probably don't need to be replaced, just will need to be cleaned. You can check the injector spray pattern, by pulling the injectors out of the head, lay them up against the valve cover, and lift the fuel distributor air metering plate (have to activate the fuel pump to do this). You'll have to take distributor cap, with wires attached, off distributor, to get to the thin/fragile metal injector lines, and remove the 3) clamps that hold them together (will need to buy new rubber clamp beds), to be able to move the injectors around without damaging the metal injector lines. Be very careful with these lines! Very easy to twist them, and destroy! Cleaning, again, requires a special injector cleaner/tester(Bosch), with the proper adapters. You can tell after cleaning, if they have a good atomized spray pattern (not multiple streams of liquid, that has a very hard time burning), and if they open up at the proper pressure, without leaking prior to opening, and they will make a unique squeal sound when they're just right. If they test good, put new o'rings on them, remove the injector housings, clean and replace the o'rings on them, squirt a little engine oil on them, and reinstall. I've read your earlier post, you have a good car, that looks, and reads from the description, like a gem. Lucky you! I would have bought it! Don't despair, it'll be worth your troubles, once you get it sorted all out, and can really enjoy it, without having to worry if you're going get stranded somewhere. These cars, anymore, require going through them to sort out their issues, and get them back to being reliable once again. Again, from your previous post, have you had any success at finding an individual/shop, that has old school experience working on these cars, that not only has worked on them, but actually understands K/jet, and is still comfortable working on them? Probably won't find them at the dealerships anymore, probably wouldn't even have the test equipment anymore either! You're in Oregon, lots of volvos, lots of 240s, lots of enthusiasts. Call around, google, ? I think, that if you can find someone to just get these issues sorted out for you, rather than trying to repair them yourself, without the experience, training, equipment, you'll be better off. K/jet, just isn't a great place to start the learning process. You'll never get enough experience, just working on you own car, to get proficient at it. I like K/jet, but as someone who just recently posted the comment "the wild wild west of K/jet, and Wizard shit", not everyone feels the same way! Anyway, apologize for the long post, but it looked like you were struggling, so, put my 2 cents in. Good luck! Keep us posted.

 

[Fa182]

(sorry, I just had to - please use some apostrophes)

 

[nibroc]

enjoyed that long post

 

[Ashtong180]

How's the progress on your issues, any updates? I agree with both of the last 2 replies. First check the fuses, just check them all, but especially both the pump, and pre pump. Then I'd check the fuel pump relay, (notorious for failure), I'd recommend just buy a new relay (from the volvo dealer), and install it (you most likely, have no idea how old that relay is)(and then you won't have to figure out if the relay is working or not). Even if your old one still works, you'll will need it at some point. Then you need to check for blown off/cracked/split/broken air/vacuum hoses, especially for the IAC. Also air intake hose going to the turbo, from the air filter/fuel distributor assembly, make sure of good connection. Also check turbo output hose to the intercooler for good connection, and for any splitting or tears. Also intercooler hose to the throttle valve on the intake manifold, for good connection and any leakage. If, after that, you still have a no start issue, you need to perform a fuel pressure test on the system. Requires a tester that is specifically set up for mechanical fuel injection (Bosch), that has, in addition to the gauge, the proper hoses, fittings, seals, and a control valve, to switch between system pressure, control pressure, and will also check your rest/residual pressure. This is the key test to your system, you will be able to check almost everything, from a bad pump, control pressure regulator(warm up regulator), to a bad pump check valve, leaking injectors. I suspect that your dying/no start is either relay or pump related (if all your air/vacuum hose are ok). And that your idle issues are injector related. Dirty injectors are a very common problem. Probably don't need to be replaced, just will need to be cleaned. You can check the injector spray pattern, by pulling the injectors out of the head, lay them up against the valve cover, and lift the fuel distributor air metering plate (have to activate the fuel pump to do this). You'll have to take distributor cap, with wires attached, off distributor, to get to the thin/fragile metal injector lines, and remove the 3) clamps that hold them together (will need to buy new rubber clamp beds), to be able to move the injectors around without damaging the metal injector lines. Be very careful with these lines! Very easy to twist them, and destroy! Cleaning, again, requires a special injector cleaner/tester(Bosch), with the proper adapters. You can tell after cleaning, if they have a good atomized spray pattern (not multiple streams of liquid, that has a very hard time burning), and if they open up at the proper pressure, without leaking prior to opening, and they will make a unique squeal sound when they're just right. If they test good, put new o'rings on them, remove the injector housings, clean and replace the o'rings on them, squirt a little engine oil on them, and reinstall. I've read your earlier post, you have a good car, that looks, and reads from the description, like a gem. Lucky you! I would have bought it! Don't despair, it'll be worth your troubles, once you get it sorted all out, and can really enjoy it, without having to worry if you're going get stranded somewhere. These cars, anymore, require going through them to sort out their issues, and get them back to being reliable once again. Again, from your previous post, have you had any success at finding an individual/shop, that has old school experience working on these cars, that not only has worked on them, but actually understands K/jet, and is still comfortable working on them? Probably won't find them at the dealerships anymore, probably wouldn't even have the test equipment anymore either! You're in Oregon, lots of volvos, lots of 240s, lots of enthusiasts. Call around, google, ? I think, that if you can find someone to just get these issues sorted out for you, rather than trying to repair them yourself, without the experience, training, equipment, you'll be better off. K/jet, just isn't a great place to start the learning process. You'll never get enough experience, just working on you own car, to get proficient at it. I like K/jet, but as someone who just recently posted the comment "the wild wild west of K/jet, and Wizard shit", not everyone feels the same way! Anyway, apologize for the long post, but it looked like you were struggling, so, put my 2 cents in. Good luck! Keep us posted.

Hi, thank you so much for all of this information that I’m still re reading every day to try to get it in my brain. I have found a shop that had actually seen my car before I had bought it surprisingly, however, my first choice for a shop was booked for weeks on end; I’m still happy with the shop I took it to and it should be up and running by Monday. There was quite a bit going on and I’d probably need an itemized receipt just to remember everything, but fuel pumps were not very good; and the reason I had not picked it up was because the fuel pump tester I had used went straight to the gauge instead of passing through the gauge (something I didn’t even know you had to do). My piston springs on 2 and 4 were pretty worn and had been causing a misfire at the last hour or two that it had been running; along with a vacuum leak at the intake side apparently, I’m going to have to have them physically show me where because I’m very clueless of what’s going on under the hood still.
Hopefully it will be running like brand new, and I will get all of that boost I have been missing. I would have loved to figure all of this out myself but I lack the knowledge and memory to put whatever I take apart back together. Also I’d rather not mess it up to the point of no return on my DD lol. If anybody wants any updates after I get it back, feel free to comment.

(sorry, I just had to - please use some apostrophes)

enjoyed that long post

If you did not like the post or aren’t willing to contribute anything helpful or positive, please don’t comment anything, if i needed the grammar fuhrer breathing down my spine I would have asked. I appreciate all of the attention but I don’t think my grammar is that incomprehensible. Thank you.

 

[Fa182]

If you did not like the post or aren’t willing to contribute anything helpful or positive, please don’t comment anything, if i needed the grammar fuhrer breathing down my spine I would have asked. I appreciate all of the attention but I don’t think my grammar is that incomprehensible. Thank you.

I am far from being one making fun of someone.
It wasn't directly aimed at you.
It was just a tongue-in-cheek and lighthearted comment about the lack of apostrophes, which makes long posts really hard to read.
We're all here to ask and answer questions and I am thankful for the wealth of information.

 

[tbrcktch]

Glad to hear you've found a shop to get it all sorted out, so you can start enjoying your new car. I'd be interested in hearing what they found. Good luck!

 

[Ashtong180]

Glad to hear you've found a shop to get it all sorted out, so you can start enjoying your new car. I'd be interested in hearing what they found. Good luck!

So I received a call this morning from the shop, they have discovered that I am running the IPD turbo cam with the adjustable cam gear, I had already known this but didn’t think it had any relevance to the situation. They were going to replace valve springs and take the head to a machine shop to ensure its quality. I am just confused though, they wanted to put a stock camshaft in with stock springs because they apparently cannot find any compatible valve springs to use with the cam, which I don’t really believe to be honest. Do I want them to do the swap or should I wait longer for them to find the springs? I have done very minimal research but I believe the VW air cooled springs work with this setup? Any more knowledge is greatly appreciated as I’d like to call the shop to get this sorted out.
Thanks!

 

[Ashtong180]

So I received a call this morning from the shop, they have discovered that I am running the IPD turbo cam with the adjustable cam gear, I had already known this but didn’t think it had any relevance to the situation. They were going to replace valve springs and take the head to a machine shop to ensure its quality. I am just confused though, they wanted to put a stock camshaft in with stock springs because they apparently cannot find any compatible valve springs to use with the cam, which I don’t really believe to be honest. Do I want them to do the swap or should I wait longer for them to find the springs? I have done very minimal research but I believe the VW air cooled springs work with this setup? Any more knowledge is greatly appreciated as I’d like to call the shop to get this sorted out.
Thanks!

Adding in to this, I had called and IPD to confirm this, and ipd says that stocks springs will retrofit and be fine with my setup. So I call the shop and they further explain to me that with the new springs and keeping the camshaft in, I will be putting more stress on my engine making it less reliable. They want me to put the stock cam and spring so it performs at lower power so it could last longer and they will just turn up the boost to taste. I’m just confused and wondering if I should really let them do this or try to keep the turbo cam in, I really like the idea of having a higher powered Volvo, but if it really cuts off the lifespan of my engine and I’m going to need to constantly tune it up that might not be as appealing to me. I would like a happy medium with reliability and power, would would all of you recommend?

 

[dl242gt]

Performance myth. You can't make more power and have the engine last long. With these engines that's just not true. these engines are over built to the point where you can add a good bit more power and not have it really affect the service life. My experience is subjective but that's what I've always done with my Volvos.

Doing stuff like a street performance cam upgrade which is the IPD turbo camshaft won't really over stress these engines. I run one of these types of cams in each of my cars and the cam I use is what the ipd cam is based on. It's a combination of the duration from the volvo B cam and the lift of the Volvo K cam. So the ipd turbo cam is considered a mild street cam keep it in there and enjoy it!! The shop is incorrect about it not lasting.

 

[Ashtong180]

Performance myth. You can't make more power and have the engine last long. With these engines that's just not true. these engines are over built to the point where you can add a good bit more power and not have it really affect the service life. My experience is subjective but that's what I've always done with my Volvos.

Doing stuff like a street performance cam upgrade which is the IPD turbo camshaft won't really over stress these engines. I run one of these types of cams in each of my cars and the cam I use is what the ipd cam is based on. It's a combination of the duration from the volvo B cam and the lift of the Volvo K cam. So the ipd turbo cam is considered a mild street cam keep it in there and enjoy it!! The shop is incorrect about it not lasting.

They are trying to tell me to put some new springs for up to 500? If IPD had told me you can even use stock springs from ipd with the performance cam, why would the shop try to sell me on different aftermarket springs? They never mentioned where they were going to get them from, but I don’t think I could find some valve springs that expensive even if I was trying. Are there any particular valve springs to use with the cam besides the stock ones?
Thanks for answering all my dumb questions.

 

[Khrrck]

It sounds like you need to find a better shop, honestly. Or talk to a different tech, at least. Which one are you going to in PDX?

 

[tbrcktch]

They are trying to tell me to put some new springs for up to 500? If IPD had told me you can even use stock springs from ipd with the performance cam, why would the shop try to sell me on different aftermarket springs? They never mentioned where they were going to get them from, but I don’t think I could find some valve springs that expensive even if I was trying. Are there any particular valve springs to use with the cam besides the stock ones?
Thanks for answering all my dumb questions.

Good morning! To start, your questions aren't dumb. You should be questioning what they're saying they want to do. There's nothing wrong with running the factory valve springs. I have run all but a couple of the factory cams (M,T,A,B,K,H), and the IPD cam, with the stock factory springs on both turbo, and N/A engines. Never had a problem. I would keep your IPD cam, and run stock volvo springs. Why did they say you needed springs? Broken/weak? Are they saying that your car quit running, and wouldn't start because of the springs? What have they actually done so far? Have they done a fuel pressure test of the system? They should be able to tell you why it quit running, and why it wouldn't restart. I doesn't sound like they have any experience with volvos, particularly turbo 240's. I wouldn't move forward with this shop.

 

[Ashtong180]

It sounds like you need to find a better shop, honestly. Or talk to a different tech, at least. Which one are you going to in PDX?

Hi, my car is currently at Swede one on Halsey street. I was originally planning on taking it to tabor Volvo, or TVG but they were both booked out for quite some time.

Good morning! To start, your questions aren't dumb. You should be questioning what they're saying they want to do. There's nothing wrong with running the factory valve springs. I have run all but a couple of the factory cams (M,T,A,B,K,H), and the IPD cam, with the stock factory springs on both turbo, and N/A engines. Never had a problem. I would keep your IPD cam, and run stock volvo springs. Why did they say you needed springs? Broken/weak? Are they saying that your car quit running, and wouldn't start because of the springs? What have they actually done so far? Have they done a fuel pressure test of the system? They should be able to tell you why it quit running, and why it wouldn't restart. I doesn't sound like they have any experience with volvos, particularly turbo 240's. I wouldn't move forward with this shop.

I believe my car wouldn’t start very well and wouldn’t hold an idle due to a fuel pump issue along with something else I don’t remember sadly, however I have notes that the fuel pump was replaced in 2019, do they go bad that quickly? They are telling me that the stock springs are too weak to use with the cam that’s in it right now, I have to take their word for everything they say because they are the only shop who could take it in quickly enough. They said they are taking the head to a machine shop to ensure its quality, and I’m just hoping they aren’t going to tell me the head is warped and I need a new one. Any recommendations on what I should say/ ask next time I get a call?

 

[Khrrck]

When I looked at it with you it seemed pretty likely you had a worn out turbo (blue smoke out the exhaust, high oil consumption) but nothing else at the time pointing at head issues. Vacuum leaks and such don't require pulling the head off. Maybe you had an oil leak from some of the seals around the head or valve cover but again, that's not really a sign that the head needs to be pulled and checked at a machine shop.

"Broken/worn valve spring" that you mentioned they diagnosed earlier is a unusual failure on these engines as far as I know, unless you're absolutely hammering it with a raised rev limit - which I don't think you have been doing. If they did find a broken or obviously damaged one, I'd like to see it. If you can't see an obvious failure I'd ask them to show you a good one or explain how they know it's bad.

That said, if there is something demonstrably wrong with the valve springs, the head might have to be pulled to access them, and I guess while you have it off you might as well check flatness and replace the headgasket, since the check is fairly easy and the gasket itself is cheap. Stock springs though are not particularly expensive, and a set of 8 hefty upgraded ones from Yoshifab is ~$300, not $500.

Labor on a head pull and reinstall is $$$ though and again, didn't see any signs of anything that pointed at a bad headgasket or valvetrain while I was looking over it with you earlier this year.

 

[tbrcktch]

Hi, my car is currently at Swede one on Halsey street. I was originally planning on taking it to tabor Volvo, or TVG but they were both booked out for quite some time.

I believe my car wouldn’t start very well and wouldn’t hold an idle due to a fuel pump issue along with something else I don’t remember sadly, however I have notes that the fuel pump was replaced in 2019, do they go bad that quickly? They are telling me that the stock springs are too weak to use with the cam that’s in it right now, I have to take their word for everything they say because they are the only shop who could take it in quickly enough. They said they are taking the head to a machine shop to ensure its quality, and I’m just hoping they aren’t going to tell me the head is warped and I need a new one. Any recommendations on what I should say/ ask next time I get a call?

As to your fuel pump, they usually last quite awhile (providing it's not a cheap after market), would be unusual to go that quickly. Your car has two pumps, (one main, and one pre pump). Were they both replaced? I would ask them how they determined that valve springs caused your car to die, and not restart. Did a spring break? Did they do a compression test, leak down test, pull the cam/lifters, and do a visual inspection of springs, or ??? I would also ask that if they do this repair, is it going to fix your issue of no start, and dying. Running an IPD cam, having volvo valve springs, are not your problem. I would tell them that you just want to fix the problem, for now, that you brought it in for. Died while driving, and wouldn't restart. You don't want to end up having spent a bunch of money, most likely on a repair that maybe you didn't need to do, or do at this time, and have the same no start, dies problem. Good luck, keep us posted!

 

[VB242]

I would more likely suspect crud in the fuel distributor or WUR if there isn't a problem with the fuel pump relay. These guys don't sound like they know what they're doing to me.