- Joined
- Oct 21, 2004
- Location
- BFE Desert east of Cali
Circulation pump after shutdown I believe.
-
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The (build) story of a Greek (hopefully fast) 240 brick
- Thread starter aristg
- Start date
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2004
- Location
- BFE Desert east of Cali
Last I heard it was around 1.8-2.0b, yeah, but he's been tweaking this at that a little off and on. Details should be in the thread further up a bit.
Yes Gary is right !!
Have a look at the dyno chart ! It has all the info you are asking. However, yes, max power is at 2-2.1 bar of boost. Keep in mind that the dyno chart has one "flaw" IMO. The dyno tester keeps rpm steady for a while and then floors it. This means that boost comes a bit later on the chart, since when on constant rpms and low load there is no boost. In reality it comes much sooner if you floor it.
Have a look at the dyno chart ! It has all the info you are asking. However, yes, max power is at 2-2.1 bar of boost. Keep in mind that the dyno chart has one "flaw" IMO. The dyno tester keeps rpm steady for a while and then floors it. This means that boost comes a bit later on the chart, since when on constant rpms and low load there is no boost. In reality it comes much sooner if you floor it.
The story continues from post #82
Update 1-6-2020 (A sad covid story)
A while ago it was decided to make a flywheel swap along with pressure plate and clutch disk. Some fractured flywheel pictures and the fact that on 240 this huge rotating mass is next to driver's legs lead to that decision. Of course it should be upgraded not only in terms of strength but clamping force as well despite the car had no clutch slip problems up to now and no signs of anything dangerous since everything was balanced from the start.
After lots of search i went for Bakaxel's option which accepts Sachs 618, Sachs 765, Sachs 707 and ACT [It has the center to be able to run with 184mm (7.25 ") clutch (eg Tilton or ACE Racing clutch)] pressure plates on a single flywheel ! Along with the flywheel a 6 puck sprung clutch disk was chosen which features 6 springs and a 765 pressure plate. This setup would provide more strength than probably needed, as well as flexibility for any other setups. As a side note, the build quality and the accuracy of the parts are amazing, exactly as advertized. Jonas on bakaxel is a very smart man and knows what he is doing providing very good advice.
So the party started by dropping the gearbox out of the car, making all the measurements LOTS of times, since there are stories flying around for bad installations causing problems.
The old setup was in a surprisingly good condition despite the dyno sessions !! No clutch disk play or slip !!
Huge weight difference for the flywheel. However the pressure plate and clutch disk for 765 are much larger, so the weight difference is reduced to a total of about 5 kgr.
The new setup - looks nice .. bigger & stronger :
Perfect tolerances from Jonas (bakaxel) .. fits as it should to the millimeter. However for checking everything the engine was rotated to see if the flywheel has any kind of grinding action. Everything perfect !
After all that, the gearbox was test fitted 3-4 times, till the sweet spot for the clutch pedal was found (moved the pivot ball to adjust the clutch engagement as good as possible). During that procedure every measurement was double checked, including the clutch disk center clearance from the gearbox's tube that the clutch bearing slides on. Jonas had warned that this could be a point of interference, so it was triple checked. Also it would leave a mark on the disk's center surface in any weird situation.
As for the new setup, for sure the left foot will do much more work, but frankly it is not as huge difference as was expected. By adjusting the pivot ball (ended up adding 3 shims) the left foot work was definitely reduced. When everything was good the disengagement was tested a bit more, moving the car back and forth after turning the gearbox's output shaft by hand to see that it actually works as it should and checked that there are no grinding marks or noises.
Everything was ready to fire the car for new adventures ! Test starting the engine .. nope, wouldn't start ! After a bit of a search was found that the wideband sensor was unplugged (which also feeds the DTA ecu) so this is why it would not start. But that was a minor problem. The starter motor had a hard time turning the engine. As a note a new battery was installed 3-4 days before the swap, so this was the first suspect ! Voltage was right, but the problem was the same. Under the car for one more time checking that everything disengages properly. Moved it around with clutch fully pressed and in neutral, everything was right. Dumped the clutch the car would stop immediately. Back to the battery then. Used an amp clamp to measure the starting current, north of 300 Amps which sounded good. Having tested everything, the next suspect was the starter motor. The flywheel gears could not be wrong, since the mesh would not be possible and would not turn at all, so this was ruled out as well.
So the next idea was the timing. If the sparks were wrong, due to some difference to flywheel gap, it would prevent the engine from starting. Disconnected the ecu and found out that the starter motor still had hard times. But the flywheel timing gap position was measured before installing it, and was exactly the same.
Connected everything back, and decided to insist on the starter till it starts the engine, and so it happened. After 4-5 seconds the engine was alive. No weird sounds, no nothing. The rpm were kept at 1500 for a while since the idle motor is not yet programmed into stepping in when needed. Watched the oil pressure, egt etc for a few seconds, everything perfect. After 10-15 seconds the gas pedal was released, the engine automatically turned off.
A second try to start the engine, it fired up much faster, but same starter motor difficulty, kept the rpm at the same range for 10 seconds, let the gas, turned off by itself again. Only weird sign was the oil catch can had some thin white smoke spitting out, but this was considered normal because it was raining for 3 days, and it usually does that since the oil gets moist by the atmosphere.
One more try for 5 seconds, lots of smoke from the catch can, the turbine sounded spooling hard i stopped the engine. After 4-5 minutes the spark plugs were removed to check if the engine turns ... and that was it. The engine was dead. No possibility to turn it by hand. 5th gear on the gearbox, pushed the car, dumped the clutch, nothing. The engine was stuck. Given that all indications of pressures were correct during all these tries, and that an engine can run without oil for at least 20 minutes before getting stuck ... the reason was a real mystery...
The next thing that happened was this:
So what stopped the engine from turning ? Here is the reason:
This is the thrust bearing of the B21 located at position 5 (close to the flywheel). If you look closely its surface is grinded. The material that is missing was stuck on the crankshaft. But what was the cause ?
Here it is:
The story behind this retro turbo's gearbox spigot shaft centering bearing was pretty simple as it turned out. On the dog dish flywheel this adapter fitted perfectly in the center hole of the heavy part. BUT the new flywheel had a center hole 5mm less than the old one. So i took the adapter to the machine shop to reduce its "mushroom head" diameter for it to fit to the new flywheel. I asked the machinist if we should do a tenth of a millimeter more so it fits easily by hand as it was in the past and not a snug fit. He insisted on having it to be hammered to its place. And this 1/10 of a millimeter ruined the engine ! As it was proved, despite being hammered, it went in slightly angled in because the aluminum made a notch on a single spot from the hammer (maybe less than 0.5 mm from side to side height difference), but it was enough to let the spigot shaft go in the bearing, while at the same time when the gearbox was bolted not show anything weird but push the crankshaft towards the front. And as the crankshaft was pushed, the main thrust bearing melted after a while since it was oiled, and when the engine started and burned the oil at the spot.. causing havoc ! Of course somebody could think that the spigot shaft front "lip" pushed the adapter's bearing having the same result ... but no, this was checked as well. It was the angle of the adapter !
So since the engine was out of the car, it was time to make some improvements:
Here are some photos putting the engine together ... at last !!
Two oil pan gaskets needed due to my custom designed pan plate (one on the top of it and one on top of the oil pan). Due to the difficulty using liquid gasket in 4 places (each side of each gasket) while aligning the block holes it was installed step by step.
Some more upgrades/improvements:
Continued at post #112--->LINK<---
Update 1-6-2020 (A sad covid story)
A while ago it was decided to make a flywheel swap along with pressure plate and clutch disk. Some fractured flywheel pictures and the fact that on 240 this huge rotating mass is next to driver's legs lead to that decision. Of course it should be upgraded not only in terms of strength but clamping force as well despite the car had no clutch slip problems up to now and no signs of anything dangerous since everything was balanced from the start.
After lots of search i went for Bakaxel's option which accepts Sachs 618, Sachs 765, Sachs 707 and ACT [It has the center to be able to run with 184mm (7.25 ") clutch (eg Tilton or ACE Racing clutch)] pressure plates on a single flywheel ! Along with the flywheel a 6 puck sprung clutch disk was chosen which features 6 springs and a 765 pressure plate. This setup would provide more strength than probably needed, as well as flexibility for any other setups. As a side note, the build quality and the accuracy of the parts are amazing, exactly as advertized. Jonas on bakaxel is a very smart man and knows what he is doing providing very good advice.
So the party started by dropping the gearbox out of the car, making all the measurements LOTS of times, since there are stories flying around for bad installations causing problems.
The old setup was in a surprisingly good condition despite the dyno sessions !! No clutch disk play or slip !!
Huge weight difference for the flywheel. However the pressure plate and clutch disk for 765 are much larger, so the weight difference is reduced to a total of about 5 kgr.
The new setup - looks nice .. bigger & stronger :
Perfect tolerances from Jonas (bakaxel) .. fits as it should to the millimeter. However for checking everything the engine was rotated to see if the flywheel has any kind of grinding action. Everything perfect !
After all that, the gearbox was test fitted 3-4 times, till the sweet spot for the clutch pedal was found (moved the pivot ball to adjust the clutch engagement as good as possible). During that procedure every measurement was double checked, including the clutch disk center clearance from the gearbox's tube that the clutch bearing slides on. Jonas had warned that this could be a point of interference, so it was triple checked. Also it would leave a mark on the disk's center surface in any weird situation.
As for the new setup, for sure the left foot will do much more work, but frankly it is not as huge difference as was expected. By adjusting the pivot ball (ended up adding 3 shims) the left foot work was definitely reduced. When everything was good the disengagement was tested a bit more, moving the car back and forth after turning the gearbox's output shaft by hand to see that it actually works as it should and checked that there are no grinding marks or noises.
Everything was ready to fire the car for new adventures ! Test starting the engine .. nope, wouldn't start ! After a bit of a search was found that the wideband sensor was unplugged (which also feeds the DTA ecu) so this is why it would not start. But that was a minor problem. The starter motor had a hard time turning the engine. As a note a new battery was installed 3-4 days before the swap, so this was the first suspect ! Voltage was right, but the problem was the same. Under the car for one more time checking that everything disengages properly. Moved it around with clutch fully pressed and in neutral, everything was right. Dumped the clutch the car would stop immediately. Back to the battery then. Used an amp clamp to measure the starting current, north of 300 Amps which sounded good. Having tested everything, the next suspect was the starter motor. The flywheel gears could not be wrong, since the mesh would not be possible and would not turn at all, so this was ruled out as well.
So the next idea was the timing. If the sparks were wrong, due to some difference to flywheel gap, it would prevent the engine from starting. Disconnected the ecu and found out that the starter motor still had hard times. But the flywheel timing gap position was measured before installing it, and was exactly the same.
Connected everything back, and decided to insist on the starter till it starts the engine, and so it happened. After 4-5 seconds the engine was alive. No weird sounds, no nothing. The rpm were kept at 1500 for a while since the idle motor is not yet programmed into stepping in when needed. Watched the oil pressure, egt etc for a few seconds, everything perfect. After 10-15 seconds the gas pedal was released, the engine automatically turned off.
A second try to start the engine, it fired up much faster, but same starter motor difficulty, kept the rpm at the same range for 10 seconds, let the gas, turned off by itself again. Only weird sign was the oil catch can had some thin white smoke spitting out, but this was considered normal because it was raining for 3 days, and it usually does that since the oil gets moist by the atmosphere.
One more try for 5 seconds, lots of smoke from the catch can, the turbine sounded spooling hard i stopped the engine. After 4-5 minutes the spark plugs were removed to check if the engine turns ... and that was it. The engine was dead. No possibility to turn it by hand. 5th gear on the gearbox, pushed the car, dumped the clutch, nothing. The engine was stuck. Given that all indications of pressures were correct during all these tries, and that an engine can run without oil for at least 20 minutes before getting stuck ... the reason was a real mystery...
The next thing that happened was this:
So what stopped the engine from turning ? Here is the reason:
This is the thrust bearing of the B21 located at position 5 (close to the flywheel). If you look closely its surface is grinded. The material that is missing was stuck on the crankshaft. But what was the cause ?
Here it is:
The story behind this retro turbo's gearbox spigot shaft centering bearing was pretty simple as it turned out. On the dog dish flywheel this adapter fitted perfectly in the center hole of the heavy part. BUT the new flywheel had a center hole 5mm less than the old one. So i took the adapter to the machine shop to reduce its "mushroom head" diameter for it to fit to the new flywheel. I asked the machinist if we should do a tenth of a millimeter more so it fits easily by hand as it was in the past and not a snug fit. He insisted on having it to be hammered to its place. And this 1/10 of a millimeter ruined the engine ! As it was proved, despite being hammered, it went in slightly angled in because the aluminum made a notch on a single spot from the hammer (maybe less than 0.5 mm from side to side height difference), but it was enough to let the spigot shaft go in the bearing, while at the same time when the gearbox was bolted not show anything weird but push the crankshaft towards the front. And as the crankshaft was pushed, the main thrust bearing melted after a while since it was oiled, and when the engine started and burned the oil at the spot.. causing havoc ! Of course somebody could think that the spigot shaft front "lip" pushed the adapter's bearing having the same result ... but no, this was checked as well. It was the angle of the adapter !
So since the engine was out of the car, it was time to make some improvements:
- Replaced the old water pump hose: This particular hose is different to the B230 sold by STSmachining which will not fit. Also this turbo hose pn 1332613 (1306162) is made out unobtanium and is not available anymore. So i got my chances and bought one for non turbo B21/23 hose pn 1219654. Since i have a different exhaust manifold and turbo location, it fits on the block. It has a minor difference on the part of the hose being more angled (flywheel side), but this should not be a problem.
The old turbo version hose:
The non turbo version hose:
- Refreshed the block paint with some Viking blood
- Powder coated some parts, color is not spot on, but as we say in Greece it is for the "bad eye", some defects protect you from being jinxed.
- Replaced oil pump with a Melling M181 high volume. As it is not clear that the Melling pump had the tall gears inside i ordered one, and measured it (thanks Gary). Also i replaced the stock Melling spring with my custom made which is 70% harder. Also as a note Volvo has produced some pumps with the part number of the Penta (high geared) pumps, BUT they actually are NOT high geared !! I was told that this would be fixed since they started the production of the correct ones. But in any case they don't look they have the same good quality casting as in the past.
Tall vs short oil pump gear.
Hard spring used:
Stock melling spring same displacement:
- Added an 1.3mm thick stainless steel oil pump hose o ring guard for not popping out under pressure (thanks again Gary for the idea and the photo) and an oil pump reinforcing ring similar to ipd's but custom made.
- Noticed a weird issue found here https://turbobricks.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354036 which i found no reason happening. Btw part number of the shaft is 463365.
- Drilled and tapped an -10AN to 3/4 oil return fitting on the block. Drill and tap kit from Amazon was surprisingly cheap !
- Polished and balanced the crankshaft - flywheel - pressure plate - pulley
- Added a long breather box return hose and its holder from the donor skinny rod B230
- Satisfied my OCD by restoring the gold color of the bolts and several other parts of the engine
Here are some photos putting the engine together ... at last !!
Two oil pan gaskets needed due to my custom designed pan plate (one on the top of it and one on top of the oil pan). Due to the difficulty using liquid gasket in 4 places (each side of each gasket) while aligning the block holes it was installed step by step.
Some more upgrades/improvements:
- Upgraded timing belt to a kevlar Gates T032RB
- Upgraded turbo return line to -10 AN PTFE braided setup: The old rubber line was cracked and brittle. Lucky to have found on time..
- Changed starter motor to a newer style high geared one. Lighter smaller prettier setup !
- Added more grounds connecting the 100A Denso alternator to the block. The standard cable was looking exhausted so 2 new thicker cables were added from the 8mm bolt on the rear of the alternator to its 12mm bracket bolt, plus a braided flat cable (same type as the one on the cylinder head to firewall) from the second case grounding stud to the front tensioner bushing bolt. This should be an overkill but still, it is better to be on the safe side.
- Changed the turbo circulator temp switch to an ALFA light switch 60537203 (7.4079 Facet) which is turns on above 45*C. Especially during winter when the car was turned off, when the circulator operated, the water temp dropped easily below the 67*C turn off point of the old switch, so the turbo wouldn't have much time to cool down by the circulator. This switch checks only if the engine is hot so not to operate the circulator when the key is turned on and off for no reason.
Continued at post #112--->LINK<---
Last edited:
LC4CARL
Aero challenged
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2008
- Location
- Vancouver, WA
Good for you. Very exciting. Any photos of the car on it's new suspension?
@Lc4carl Thanks a lot man. Really appreciate it. As a matter of fact i don't, but i set up the same height as the previous springs since i was happy with the setting. Only thing changed is their stiffness. As soon as the car is ready and springs settle once again (since the engine is out for a long time now) i will shoot some and post them. Good idea !
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2004
- Location
- BFE Desert east of Cali
I have a couple pics from our trip last year if you want Aris, they should be in the shared folder.
Nice update!
Nice update!
LC4CARL
Aero challenged
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2008
- Location
- Vancouver, WA
1/10th of a millimeter. Good lord...
The story continues from post #106
Update 28/10/2020 - also some updates @ post #106
This time the spigot shaft bearing housing was machined correctly, the gearbox installed smoothly and engine turned easily. Everything in check not to make the same mistake twice .. In order to adjust the clutch fork for the new setup 2 x 2mm washers were used following the instructions given to me by Jonas (bakaxel.se) found here: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=6123667&postcount=37
Now it looks like an engine again !!
Much effort was put to address any problems and improve any "weak" spots that could be found on this build. Hopefully everything was covered.
A thing that looks bad in the 240 engine bay is the AC return line above the engine. Many would suggest to delete the whole AC setup freeing a lot of space and weight, but frankly in Greece there is no point having a car without it. During summer temperatures go up to 42*C (108F) so being in a car is unbearable. The next option was to dump the York setup and try upgrade to a newer style rotary new spec compressor BUT with the "obligation" of finding another route for this ugly line. However in order to fit a new compressor a newer style bracket had to be found. And this is where the story complexes. The B230 brackets DO NOT fit on the B21/23 block, since only 3 out of 4 bolts line up. And the B21/23 brackets are hard to find, at least in Europe (and they have 2 different versions). Here is a discussion for this topic: http://www.turbobricks.org/forums/showthread.php?t=355153
The bracket was powder coated, got poly bushings (A LOT of them !!) and test fitted successfully. The lower right bolt hole was not forgotten to be powder coated .. this is where the main engine ground mounts. Also don't forget that when using this bracket a separate ground from the block directly to the AC compressor is needed, since the compressor sits fully on bushings unlike the York one which is actually bolted on the block.
The next thing was that the old teardrop shaped PS pump did not fit the new bracket. While haunting for a 91+ power steering pump with integrated oil tank it was discovered that they also came with various mounting brackets. Their main difference is that the older version has the tensioner upright next to the distributor position, while the newer has the tensioner horizontally under the pump. The first one is what fits the setup of this car. Here are pics for reference:
When the new power steering pump was purchaced my OCD dictated that it had to be pretty since it is on the top of the engine bay. The pulley had to be pulled and of course this needed a special puller/installer which can be found cheaply online (GM & Ford saginaw type). However this tool is a bit bigger than it should, and if not modified it will pull and break the pulley's lip since it grabs it on its outer part. DO NOT try in any other way (hammer, allen key, hydraulic press etc) since this pulley is very thin and can be destroyed easily. Also DO NOT hit the extractor's bolt while pulling the pulley (to break it loose as the old mechanics did), it is better to heat it up, since the pulley is very tight on the pump shaft and the tool may exceed the lip's strength. Make sure it pulls it very straight, if you see it goes sideways you have probably started to pull the lip. If the shaft is hit to break it loose while pulling it, the back plate of the pump will break at the point where it has a little bump. Ask me how i know ...
So since the back plate needed replacing (split tank type pumps have the same parts), the whole pump was torn apart to have it serviced (new o-rings and seal) and powder coated. Here is a diagram that shows the internals of this pump. Not Volvo diagram, but same build.
Next step was to test fit the AC/PS bracket to see if everything lines up correctly. An old Diesel Kiki DKS-15BH compressor was also used for the measurements.
An important note: The York compressor features a 152mm A2 pulley. This size pulley is NOT available in newer style rotary compressors, where maximum for 12V types (at least Sanden) is 132mm. This means that the 132mm pulley will turn faster, and these compressors have a maximum rpm limit (usually 6000rpm continuous / 7000rpm instant on downshifts). The following calculations should be performed for this engine:
Old setup:
Crank pulley (145mm) -> York pulley (152mm) -> Power steering pulley (152mm) so @ 1000 rpm:
Crank pulley (1000rpm) -> York pulley (950 rpm) -> Power steering pulley (950rpm)
New setup:
Crank pulley (145mm) -> New AC pulley (132mm) -> Power steering pulley (152mm) so @ 1000 rpm:
Crank pulley (1000rpm) -> New AC pulley (1100 rpm) -> Power steering pulley (957rpm)
What is obvious is that the compressor should disengage at 6000 rpm (be careful: compressor speed), so given the ratio, it should disengage at engine speed of 5450 rpm !!! This means it needs some sort of rpm control from the ECU.
Some respraying of the engine bay was done, as good as it could get, just to look cleaner.. but no engine in there ..
Look ma ... i got an engine !! YAYYYYY
Since it was decided to modify the AC lines, a different output compressor by Sanden was chosen so to route them easily without many bends. Also a suggestion from an old mechanic was to get a new compressor since the rebuilt units are usually no good (and frankly the repaired costs almost the same as the new one). The new compressor features 7 pistons for smoother operation and is about 155cc/per stroke capacity. It is Sanden's model SD7H15 model S8227. The FLX7 would be chosen but it is not available in Greece. Both these compressors can be mounted 90 degrees from the upright position which can be useful for this modification.
Looks that this setup has lots of room to have the new AC hoses routed next to the compressor
Continued at post #129 --->LINK<---
Update 28/10/2020 - also some updates @ post #106
This time the spigot shaft bearing housing was machined correctly, the gearbox installed smoothly and engine turned easily. Everything in check not to make the same mistake twice .. In order to adjust the clutch fork for the new setup 2 x 2mm washers were used following the instructions given to me by Jonas (bakaxel.se) found here: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showpost.php?p=6123667&postcount=37
Now it looks like an engine again !!
Much effort was put to address any problems and improve any "weak" spots that could be found on this build. Hopefully everything was covered.A thing that looks bad in the 240 engine bay is the AC return line above the engine. Many would suggest to delete the whole AC setup freeing a lot of space and weight, but frankly in Greece there is no point having a car without it. During summer temperatures go up to 42*C (108F) so being in a car is unbearable. The next option was to dump the York setup and try upgrade to a newer style rotary new spec compressor BUT with the "obligation" of finding another route for this ugly line. However in order to fit a new compressor a newer style bracket had to be found. And this is where the story complexes. The B230 brackets DO NOT fit on the B21/23 block, since only 3 out of 4 bolts line up. And the B21/23 brackets are hard to find, at least in Europe (and they have 2 different versions). Here is a discussion for this topic: http://www.turbobricks.org/forums/showthread.php?t=355153
The bracket was powder coated, got poly bushings (A LOT of them !!) and test fitted successfully. The lower right bolt hole was not forgotten to be powder coated .. this is where the main engine ground mounts. Also don't forget that when using this bracket a separate ground from the block directly to the AC compressor is needed, since the compressor sits fully on bushings unlike the York one which is actually bolted on the block.
The next thing was that the old teardrop shaped PS pump did not fit the new bracket. While haunting for a 91+ power steering pump with integrated oil tank it was discovered that they also came with various mounting brackets. Their main difference is that the older version has the tensioner upright next to the distributor position, while the newer has the tensioner horizontally under the pump. The first one is what fits the setup of this car. Here are pics for reference:
When the new power steering pump was purchaced my OCD dictated that it had to be pretty since it is on the top of the engine bay. The pulley had to be pulled and of course this needed a special puller/installer which can be found cheaply online (GM & Ford saginaw type). However this tool is a bit bigger than it should, and if not modified it will pull and break the pulley's lip since it grabs it on its outer part. DO NOT try in any other way (hammer, allen key, hydraulic press etc) since this pulley is very thin and can be destroyed easily. Also DO NOT hit the extractor's bolt while pulling the pulley (to break it loose as the old mechanics did), it is better to heat it up, since the pulley is very tight on the pump shaft and the tool may exceed the lip's strength. Make sure it pulls it very straight, if you see it goes sideways you have probably started to pull the lip. If the shaft is hit to break it loose while pulling it, the back plate of the pump will break at the point where it has a little bump. Ask me how i know ...
So since the back plate needed replacing (split tank type pumps have the same parts), the whole pump was torn apart to have it serviced (new o-rings and seal) and powder coated. Here is a diagram that shows the internals of this pump. Not Volvo diagram, but same build.
Next step was to test fit the AC/PS bracket to see if everything lines up correctly. An old Diesel Kiki DKS-15BH compressor was also used for the measurements.
An important note: The York compressor features a 152mm A2 pulley. This size pulley is NOT available in newer style rotary compressors, where maximum for 12V types (at least Sanden) is 132mm. This means that the 132mm pulley will turn faster, and these compressors have a maximum rpm limit (usually 6000rpm continuous / 7000rpm instant on downshifts). The following calculations should be performed for this engine:
Old setup:
Crank pulley (145mm) -> York pulley (152mm) -> Power steering pulley (152mm) so @ 1000 rpm:
Crank pulley (1000rpm) -> York pulley (950 rpm) -> Power steering pulley (950rpm)
New setup:
Crank pulley (145mm) -> New AC pulley (132mm) -> Power steering pulley (152mm) so @ 1000 rpm:
Crank pulley (1000rpm) -> New AC pulley (1100 rpm) -> Power steering pulley (957rpm)
What is obvious is that the compressor should disengage at 6000 rpm (be careful: compressor speed), so given the ratio, it should disengage at engine speed of 5450 rpm !!! This means it needs some sort of rpm control from the ECU.
Some respraying of the engine bay was done, as good as it could get, just to look cleaner.. but no engine in there ..
Look ma ... i got an engine !! YAYYYYY
Since it was decided to modify the AC lines, a different output compressor by Sanden was chosen so to route them easily without many bends. Also a suggestion from an old mechanic was to get a new compressor since the rebuilt units are usually no good (and frankly the repaired costs almost the same as the new one). The new compressor features 7 pistons for smoother operation and is about 155cc/per stroke capacity. It is Sanden's model SD7H15 model S8227. The FLX7 would be chosen but it is not available in Greece. Both these compressors can be mounted 90 degrees from the upright position which can be useful for this modification.
Looks that this setup has lots of room to have the new AC hoses routed next to the compressor
Continued at post #129 --->LINK<---
Last edited:
tomasss
former PRVert
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2008
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
[*]Added an 1.3mm thick stainless steel oil pump hose o ring guard for not popping out under pressure (thanks again Gary for the idea and the photo) and an oil pump reinforcing ring similar to ipd's but custom made.
Great idea, I will copy this in my build
I've tried to fit two seals but that is too thick, this will work better.@tomasss The main idea behind that little trick is that the seal sits on a square stop rather than on a rounded, so it can not go over it litlle by little when pressure is building up. As far as i know Gary (gsellstr) had bad luck with that, because it slid out of its place ... and his engine was hurt badly. He has a picture of this little seal out of its seat, he may be able to post it.
LC4CARL
Aero challenged
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2008
- Location
- Vancouver, WA
May I trouble you for the details on where you sourced the small starter?
@LC4CARL Well no problem, but i got it from a local car electrician in Greece that has lots of this stuff. Why ? Is it rare ? It got offered to me and i said yes !
From Vida it looks like the pn for this is Volvo 1357199 or 5003564
From Vida it looks like the pn for this is Volvo 1357199 or 5003564
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LC4CARL
Aero challenged
- Joined
- Sep 8, 2008
- Location
- Vancouver, WA
Looks like a nice unit.
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2004
- Location
- BFE Desert east of Cali
Hey Carl...that looks like the normal later style permanent magnet starter, pretty easy to get just about anywhere.
The backing behind that machined washer is indeed as Aris mentioned. That seal has caused quite a few failures on rides here on TB for ages, with people trying the double seal, permatex, whatever they could scheme up. I had 1 instance of that seal walking completely out, double-sealed it and had one of those walk out as well. Once you give it a solid surface with close tolerances, it can't do so. I used a stainless washer, machined the ID to be a snug fit over the pipe, and about a .030" clearance to the bore in the block. Haven't had any issues since. It's like that oil pump reinforcing ring...a cheap part, easy idea, for a lot of insurance against things failing and causing damage. lol
Nice update Aris! Maybe I'll actually drive it on my next trip over there! lol
The backing behind that machined washer is indeed as Aris mentioned. That seal has caused quite a few failures on rides here on TB for ages, with people trying the double seal, permatex, whatever they could scheme up. I had 1 instance of that seal walking completely out, double-sealed it and had one of those walk out as well. Once you give it a solid surface with close tolerances, it can't do so. I used a stainless washer, machined the ID to be a snug fit over the pipe, and about a .030" clearance to the bore in the block. Haven't had any issues since. It's like that oil pump reinforcing ring...a cheap part, easy idea, for a lot of insurance against things failing and causing damage. lol
Nice update Aris! Maybe I'll actually drive it on my next trip over there! lol
- Joined
- May 11, 2007
- Location
- Niketown, OR
**** I should have done that
- Joined
- Oct 21, 2004
- Location
- BFE Desert east of Cali
Yes you should have. Eh, it's easy, just drop the pan, pump, and put it in. Shouldn't take more than a few hours for most of us, a few months for you...