White 940 2.5TDI wagon

[v8volvo]

Looking great, beautiful work on those mounts.

700 series definitely did come with 1030 I think? Especially gas engine NA cars I am almost sure had them.

 

[Tfrasca]

Mounts look great!

 

[petiww]

Thanks guys!
I managed not to touch any part of the car in january. Partly because it was cold outside, but mainly because i wanted to use the d24 oil dipstick and its holder. Massaged out the Audi holder, and found that it has a much smaller bore in the block and its not even o-ringed. Its not a big deal to step bore it, but im kinda afraid i might mess it up and o-ring wont seal. Need to come up with a good solution to machine it properly. This and the left side engine mount, as it will need to go around the dipstick holder.

I thought i should do something else that i find relaxing. So I removed the cluster from the car for a thorough maintenance.
Speedometer did not work, but i found broken wires at diff, hoped only these give trouble.
Fuel gauge readed erratic sometimes i've been told by PO. I think its the fuel level sender itself.
Other gauges are unknown.

Went ahead and ordered every electrolytic capacitor by ?F values (choosen voltages higher) i found in the whole cluster.
Completely resoldered the gauge pcb-s, changed capacitors, cleaned boards. Speedo needed a lot of cleaning, because 4 caps at the top leaked their electrolytes.
20210215_191610 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
20210215_212441 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
20210215_215056 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
20210211_221540 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr

Hopefully it will work fine from now on.

Scored a bunch of bus headlights for future quad headlight conversion (740 frontend):
20210123_115411 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
These are proper Hella projector type low beams. Not sure about looks, we will see. Car will eventually get a 175 redwood metallic or 404 light blue metallic. I want to add chrome trims, and im not sure how those will get along with these lights.

Finally had the guts to rip out the wiring from the Audi:
20210213_145723 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
Oh damn what a complicated thing it is! Of course the TDI wiring went straight into the main loom right where it entered cabin. Hopefully it will be straightforward to strip it properly to create a separate only-engine loom.

 

[v8volvo]

Great looking work on the cluster.

How much of the dash harness do you think you will need? Last couple of TDI swaps I messed with, the harness was pretty quick and easy to strip down, didn't use the VW fuse panel or anything. But those were coming out of smaller 4 cylinder TDI Jettas and Beetles and such. Maybe the C4 chassis is more complicated.

Fortunately the old style TDI engines do not need much to run. Should be able to tap the Volvo VSS signal and the computer will be happy with it, and otherwise (AFAIK) there should be no integration with the rest of the car that will cause any trouble on these old model versions. I did a '97 AHU into a Toyota truck last summer and I didn't even need to move away from the stock tune, it was happy enough right out of the box, no codes at all once the VSS and other simple inputs were all up and running properly.

The one thing to watch how you hook it up is the brake and clutch switches, as the TDI computer is picky about seeing what it wants to see on those. IIRC there are three separate wires for this, a couple need to be grounded and the third needs to float? I think I have a document somewhere that gives the instructions, I'll try to find.

 

[petiww]

Great looking work on the cluster.

How much of the dash harness do you think you will need? Last couple of TDI swaps I messed with, the harness was pretty quick and easy to strip down, didn't use the VW fuse panel or anything. But those were coming out of smaller 4 cylinder TDI Jettas and Beetles and such. Maybe the C4 chassis is more complicated.

Fortunately the old style TDI engines do not need much to run. Should be able to tap the Volvo VSS signal and the computer will be happy with it, and otherwise (AFAIK) there should be no integration with the rest of the car that will cause any trouble on these old model versions. I did a '97 AHU into a Toyota truck last summer and I didn't even need to move away from the stock tune, it was happy enough right out of the box, no codes at all once the VSS and other simple inputs were all up and running properly.

The one thing to watch how you hook it up is the brake and clutch switches, as the TDI computer is picky about seeing what it wants to see on those. IIRC there are three separate wires for this, a couple need to be grounded and the third needs to float? I think I have a document somewhere that gives the instructions, I'll try to find.

Thanks!

This weekend i spent some more time with wiring and it was not as bad as it seemed when we pulled the whole wiring from the car. Actually its pretty much separated in factory form, just connected to the main loom in weird locations, and have the relays, fuses, control modules in all different places. Its all labelled up and will need another afternoon of work to be ready for installation.

There were a few things which took us time to figure out. Namely:
-Electonic engine mount and its control relay. Somehow it is not controlled directly by the TDI ecu.
-Auxiliary (coolant) heater. I did not find the usual 3 glow plug water heater on the engine and thought it does not have anything similar. Well i was wrong, because there is an electric air heater pad inside the heater box, with two 50amp relays and some weird wiring. Relays are controlled by the ecu.
-Auxiliary heater control module, which seems to be an alternator voltage adjuster/booster when the electric heating is on. It seems it is controlled by the ecu aswell.

Goal is to make an independent plug and play wiring next to the factory D24, if i ever need to put that engine back.

 

[nordmaschine]

Any progress?

I'm looking at a BAU sitting on ma garage floor, too bad bellhousing isn't the same as Inline 5/6, so I'll have to cut and weld a Getrag...

 

[petiww]

Any progress?

I'm looking at a BAU sitting on ma garage floor, too bad bellhousing isn't the same as Inline 5/6, so I'll have to cut and weld a Getrag...

Or use a welded quattro gearbox and maybe a flipped rear end? Those boxies have long 5 and 6 gear ratios!

Well, nothing much to be speak of, and as long as brownie is not driveable, i wont really touch it.
I did however source a working NA D24 from a 244, and an unknown condition D24T that sat for 15 years. I plan to slap together a D24TIC from these for mot funkyness. I may just install it now before the tdi, it goes to inspection at the end of the year anyway. This way i dont need to swap engines back and forth, and can continue to build the custom tdi bits in an other engine bay. Sad that i accidentally drilled through my finger...

 

[v8volvo]

Any progress?

I'm looking at a BAU sitting on ma garage floor, too bad bellhousing isn't the same as Inline 5/6, so I'll have to cut and weld a Getrag...

Have you tried bolting up the D24 type bellhousing from a M46/47/90 to that BAU? Are you sure it wouldn't work?

IIRC the inline 5/6 pattern is very close to the Audi V6/V8 pattern. Not identical, but I think there is perhaps only one bolt hole that doesn't align? Supposedly it is close enough to successfully use it, and people have done so. With 11 fasteners on these, using only 10 seems to be ok.

One time I sold a D24 M46 bellhousing to a guy who was searching for one to use it to put a 4.2L gas Audi V8 into a Miata with a T5 trans -- apparently that is a known successful combination. See more related discussion in this thread: http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=357535

Not sure what you would have to do with flywheel and clutch setup since I believe the crankshaft depth in the bellhousing would probably not be the same even if the bell could bolt up. But that's a solvable problem, getting the engine and trans to mate is the big part. I guess clocking angle could be a factor too.

BAU motor, if you don't use it, maybe you can box it up and ship it to me. I'm trying to source one to put into my 2001 C5 Allroad. Found an AKN, AFB, and AKE all already here in the US with importers, but I would prefer to get hands on one of the later Bxx roller valvetrain versions.

OP, sorry for the thread discussion derail. Looking forward to seeing this project continue, lots of fun to watch so far!

 

[moise]

i have 245 tdi, you can use D24 intake manifold, you will see big difference!

 

[petiww]

I did however source a working NA D24 from a 244, and an unknown condition D24T that sat for 15 years. I plan to slap together a D24TIC from these for mot funkyness. I may just install it now before the tdi, it goes to inspection at the end of the year anyway.

Well, this happened. The car is now driveable, and i absolutely love it. NA D24 got the D24TIC setup, and a few bits from the D24T. Fixed a few major problems but still has issues here and there.

Fabbed a few tools:
20210804_223033 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
20210804_223124 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
20210810_211930 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr

This area was all fubarred with M10 studs and a badly tapped M12, and i managed to make it even worse as i drilled through the head. (just like through my finger )
20210801_152556 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
It got stainless studs with M10-M8 and M12-M8 endings, all fixed in with strong thread lock:
20210730_103839 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
Left ones are homemade studs but the M8 thread die messed up two completely. Had them machined out of stainless at company.

20210812_201111 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
20210812_200901 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
20210812_220751 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr

Turbo spools slowly, i guess bearings are tired a bit. Not that its a problem as i have no oil cooling now and no piston squirters either. Im not really using the throttle more than 50%, and wont really go faster than 100-110kmh to avoid oil overheating and pistons melting. Thats why my friend gave this from his work truck.
20210812_200823 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr

Still need to reshim the valves as 5/6 intake valves are too tight, and 1/6 exhaust valve is too loose. It smokes blueish until it warms up, then its completely smoke free when used normally. AC not yet works, i guess the radiator is original and tired as hell.

 

[v8volvo]

Very nice! Maybe you just want to build a fresh D24TIC for it, they are excellent engines too as long as nobody does knucklehead sabotage to the engine, though I can understand the appeal of the TDI also.

Well done on the tools, look as good as the factory versions.

Plan to get it through inspection like this and then go forward with the 2.5 TDI still?

 

[petiww]

Very nice! Maybe you just want to build a fresh D24TIC for it, they are excellent engines too as long as nobody does knucklehead sabotage to the engine, though I can understand the appeal of the TDI also.

Well done on the tools, look as good as the factory versions.

Plan to get it through inspection like this and then go forward with the 2.5 TDI still?

Thanks!

Yes it will go through inspection in this form, and will use it until tdi is ready for the swap.
I kinda like this straight 6, its simplicity and the truck noise it makes. But im not a fan of prechamber design and its heavy thermal load to the cylinder head. Also almost all of these engines are in that age that they have been already rebuilt like 1 or 2 times. The one that crapped itself in the 940 is bored to first oversize, the one that sat 15 years is bored to second oversize...

The TDIs just seem to take loads much better while lasting much longer. And the fact that its still relatively easy to find a good, non smoking one which could probably outlast the chassis.

Went and checked AC at my buddies workplace. It had ~845gr of refrigerant instead of 950gr, and holds vacuum pretty nicely. It cycles a bit too often, and makes no cold at all, so it seems like it has a blockage in the system.

 

[v8volvo]

But im not a fan of prechamber design and its heavy thermal load to the cylinder head. ....
The TDIs just seem to take loads much better while lasting much longer.

I agree with you there. The direct injection motors do a much better job of managing heat especially if power increases above stock.

It's too bad the inline six never got the TDI evolution like the 4 cylinder and 5 cylinder engines did. If the prechamber D24TIC had been transformed into a tall deck longer stroke TDI like the 1.6TD became the 1.9/2.0TDI and the old 2.0 5cyl TD became 2.5TDI, the D24TIC using the same dimensions would have been a 3.0L TDI inline 6. Extrapolating from the 2.5TDI performance figures we can guess it would have had maybe 180hp/300tq from the factory with much more available from tuning.....

If someone could figure out a way to build a direct injection head, dropping TDI pistons into a D24TIC to make a homebrew version would be cool. Never gonna happen but fun to imagine.

I think your move towards the 5cyl TDI makes sense. The smoothness and sound of the I6 is very nice but there is no replacement for more advanced technology. Like a pushrod Volvo gasser, the D24 family is just... old. Still can be a lot of fun and do cool things with them, but they cannot compete with a 15 years newer design for serious performance.

 

[petiww]

It's too bad the inline six never got the TDI evolution like the 4 cylinder and 5 cylinder engines did. If the prechamber D24TIC had been transformed into a tall deck longer stroke TDI like the 1.6TD became the 1.9/2.0TDI and the old 2.0 5cyl TD became 2.5TDI, the D24TIC using the same dimensions would have been a 3.0L TDI inline 6. Extrapolating from the 2.5TDI performance figures we can guess it would have had maybe 180hp/300tq from the factory with much more available from tuning.....

If someone could figure out a way to build a direct injection head, dropping TDI pistons into a D24TIC to make a homebrew version would be cool. Never gonna happen but fun to imagine.

Well, yes, that would be pretty awesome. Although i understand why they ditched the engine, its just too long for fwd applications. VW only put it into LT lorries, nothing else really. V6 TDI is a bit more compact than this, sadly some of them suffers from premature camshaft wear...
Although im not a fan of V6 design either.

https://www.facebook.com/DatsunworksDOHC - It all depends on money i think.

Shimmed the valves, i think it got a bit more power too. Its still rough and smokey when cold, but smooths out and completely smokefree when its heated up. We fixed a lot of stuff with local fellow volvo guys on it, and now its waiting for a 600km roundtrip on next week.
-Non working alarm ditching, fortunately it was half removed from the wiring
-Central locking, relay fried possibly by shorted tailgate wires
-Tailgate lock freeing up, as it rusted and stuck a bit
-Handbrake, as holder broke on axle
-Sun visor holders, they were just gone
-Shifter steel bushing fix, as it was rotating around, making 1-2 shifting a complete mess
-Bit of center console cleaning as it had all kind of organic elements and change to wash the car
-Vacuuming

 

[petiww]

-Tailgate lock freeing up, as it rusted and stuck a bit

It turns out it wasn't the case. It worked for a bit then kept itself locked. I could only open from inside.
Removed the lock and instantly realised its totally rustfree. The problem was the outer manual opening handle and its pushrod. The handle does not move too freely despite my efforts, and the rod lenght adjustment was at the very edge where it would not move back in the lock fully, and the lock jammed during unlocking. Just like when someone tries to open from outside while trying to unlock from inside.
Adjusted and added a light pull spring to the pushrod. Now the problems are gone.

I took a video how slow it is. Its an absolute NA until 2500rpm, has 0,5bar around 3000rpm, and reach max 1 bar boost around 4000rpm. If i haven't driven a built D24 a few days ago, which builds boost at very low rpms and is actually fun to drive, i would say its not that bad. But it is a slow boat.
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/RosJ3XfMXC4?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
I'm kind of leaning towards a sidepipe without mufflers and partially clogged cat, maybe that could help with building boost earlier. Or i just need a turbo rebuild?

Also i felt weird resonances from the rear end after going over bumps, and thought my shocks could not control the axle. After checking it with a helper, from the outside it really looked like the wheel bounces after bumps. It happens when the shocks heat up a bit, if they are cold its somewhat fine. Swapped in a used set of original Volvo shocks, we will see how they do.
Also the driveshaft support bushing was totally loose, so i pushed some foamed rubber strips inside to get the bearing centered. Most of the resonances disappeared during hard accelerating.

Played a bit with the windshield washer motors because both was stuck. Cleaned the washer tank and removed both clogged filters. Sadly the long rear washer tube is also clogged somewhere inside...

 

[moise]

amazing you have little problem, look my tdi 5cyl:

https://youtu.be/Dn2_Y9_GsYk

 

[dieselrebel]

Which fuel pump for an electronicless 2.5tdi?

Hello there; an internet research brought me here. I’m mostly from vwn stuff, but this is not the 1st time I write into a volvo forum, actually I often say that we should collaborate.
I was looking for the grade of slant on vw diesel powered RWD volvos coz a guy said you can’t place a turbo into a 240 d24 and there’s one almost rusty free for sale by a junkyard and I like that car but the 80hp are not enough to tow; so a 2.5tdi swap could have been fine but if you can't place a turbo to the d24, easily the 2.5tdi won't fit. But the 200 series frame is the same of the 900 series, so here I am...
Then I read the mindblowing post from v8volvo...! :

And, mechanical injection pump conversion

Is this even possible?
I had several t4 (2.4d, gas, but never a 2.5tdi and always FWD), and it's been a while I'm fantasizing about building a turbo diesel 5 banger without electronics.
However I was about the 2.4d, because to me the 2.5tdi was not good enough due the presence of electronics; I always liked the idea of a 4x4 camper to make these long travels abroad in countries that are “not fully developed”; and when you are away you don’t want to have a light on the cockpit because this or that sensor is dead. So if I can take away the electronics, the 2.5tdi engine is ideal.

The real question is:
is it possible to convert the fuel pump of, lets say an ACV, in order to get rid of electronics? Or do you need another fuel pump to clean the electronics out?
If so, which pump?
The only 5 pot diesel engines I know that are electronics-free, are the AAB, that however are pre-chamber engines so I don't think their fuel pumps are good for direct injection engines, and also they lack of the fundamental LDA, so they are not suitable for turbo operations.

Thank you guys and sorry for the Off-Topic but this can be sorted out quickly.

 

[petiww]

amazing you have little problem, look my tdi 5cyl:

https://youtu.be/Dn2_Y9_GsYk

That thing moves! 140hp?

The real question is:
is it possible to convert the fuel pump of, lets say an ACV, in order to get rid of electronics? Or do you need another fuel pump to clean the electronics out?
If so, which pump?
The only 5 pot diesel engines I know that are electronics-free, are the AAB, that however are pre-chamber engines so I don't think their fuel pumps are good for direct injection engines, and also they lack of the fundamental LDA, so they are not suitable for turbo operations.

Thank you guys and sorry for the Off-Topic but this can be sorted out quickly.

No problems! To be honest im also leaning towards just throwing on a mechanical pump. I really dont want to hassle with additional wiring in this car. Not to mention simplicity and less things to go bad over time.
I don't really know which pump parts should be assembled together, I'm fairly new to diesel stuff and pumps, and honestly im not that interested in it to get deeper knowledge. I'll buy an already working mechanical pump or have someone assemble one for me.

-
After my last post we went on and had some fun with 12david34 (He is a BMW guy now, shame on him. ):
20210821_183225 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
20210822_174652 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
20210822_100929 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
20210823_124049 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
20210823_175943 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
We turned ourselves into hobo sapiens near lake Balaton, sleeping in the cars, visiting a festival and having drinks.
Of course the E34 is a prechamber coal roller too, so it was fun to drive each others cars and seeing our car smoke from the outside.

Then we parted ways and i rolled south to Fishing On Orfű festival. It was my third one, and first time with this car. Awesome atmosphere, great people, good music!
20210824_200729 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr

It was a good time for others to bring their similar white 940 polars there:
20210827_192803 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
240788181_530712214676453_5365347460108483913_n by P?ter Gede, on Flickr
At least these were not diesels

 

[moise]

That thing moves! 140hp?

near 200hp

 

[petiww]

Its been almost a year... Well, fortunately this time was not uneventful
Among other things, the car finally became a TDI wagon. It was really a mood roller coaster at times... Just finished uploading all the pictures to flickr, here is a little teaser of the oncoming detailed (build) photo tsunami.

20220415_144221 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr

20220514_201520 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr

20220605_003810 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr

20220619_143454 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr

20220807_193341 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr

20220906_182008 by P?ter Gede, on Flickr