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best bang for the buck aftermarket engine management

HiSPL said:
Sensors in the gear box or the shifter mechanism. It isn't that easy to set up, but you have to have some kind of sensor or microswitch to determine which gear you're in.
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Vehicle speed Vs. RPM Calculation is the easiest without eating up an input.
 
WillettRun? said:
MaxxECU Mini over the microSuck

https://www.maxxecu.com/products/mini
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But why dough.


Can't just come in here and throw down the gauntlet without saying why! :rofl:


On a serious note, my Son and I will be building an 07k for as cheap as possible and He wants to do the Microsquirt because its cheap.


Will the Maxxecu Mini run a 5 cylinder in wasted spark? The Micro squirt will.
 
Using the traditional meaning, 5 cylinder wasted spark is mechanically impossible. MegaSquirt, versus MicroSquirt, with extra circuits can run 5 COPs, using 5 outputs, and no cam sensor in Wasted COP mode. It fires each of the 5 cyls/wires once per rev. I don't know if MicroSquirt can support 5 COPs with 5 ignition outputs.

Price wise, the MaxxECU vs MS isn't that far off after you add in the MS costs for external MAP sensor, serial-to-usb converter cable, and tunerstudio licenses. Also make sure you compare prices on the 8' harness (the 3' harness isn't long enough in most installs).
 
Real talk. These are the things I need to know. This will be our first time with a standalone and I kinda don't know what I don't know....
 
HiSPL said:
Real talk. These are the things I need to know. This will be our first time with a standalone and I kinda don't know what I don't know....
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Microsquirt with its pre-made 8? harness is a really good deal.

From a hardware standpoint? the maxx ecu mini and microsquirt are pretty similar.

Installing a micro on a redblock is very well documented and well known around TB, less so with MaxxEcu. Some people complain about using the stock VR crank sensor, but the fix to make it reliable is very simple and well documented.

My only beef with a microsquirt is that it uses tunerstudio which I (and most people who have used any other tuning software) find disorganized and not well laid out. That being said, the search function works great, auto tune works incredibly well, and you can google most of the questions you have and find an answer in a short amount of time.
 
bobxyz said:
Price wise, the MaxxECU vs MS isn't that far off after you add in the MS costs for external MAP sensor, serial-to-usb converter cable, and tunerstudio licenses. Also make sure you compare prices on the 8' harness (the 3' harness isn't long enough in most installs).
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Yes. I find tunerstudio (live tuning) and megalogviewer (log visualization and offline tuning) both useful for microsquirt. $70+$50 = $120 of software. I don't know what MaxxECU comes with.
 
If you're converting a 4-cyl redblock to an aftermarket ECU and you're tuning it yourself, a MicroSquirt with an 8' harness is a good choice since there's lots of experience here for that combination. If you're converting a 5-cyl VW, ask what you Tuner and/or favorite VW forum recommends.
 
I've never found tunerstudio to be particularly difficult to navigate (nor really hondata, or AEM, or for the most part holley. hp tuners can be weird). Of all of the ones I semi-regularly use, I dislike AEM the most. ProEFI's software was (and apparently still is) hot garbage as well, but I don't recall it being particularly egregious in terms of layout.
 
linuxman51 said:
I've never found tunerstudio to be particularly difficult to navigate (nor really hondata, or AEM, or for the most part holley. hp tuners can be weird). Of all of the ones I semi-regularly use, I dislike AEM the most. ProEFI's software was (and apparently still is) hot garbage as well, but I don't recall it being particularly egregious in terms of layout.
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It's fine and easy enough to use, and thank goodness you can search for things easily enough. I just wish there was a way to change the layout (what tabs everything is under) in TS. The default menu locations are :omg: to me.

But maybe I'm just a dumb dumb :lol:
 
culberro said:
It's fine and easy enough to use, and thank goodness you can search for things easily enough. I just wish there was a way to change the layout (what tabs everything is under) in TS. The default menu locations are :omg: to me.

But maybe I'm just a dumb dumb :lol:
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I guess I don?t find it inherently difficult to use but it is absolutely in no way intuitive to use.
 
you can re-write the config file if you want to move things around, that's what drives the whole thing. Of course if you can sort that out, I'd be willing to posit the rest of it is no longer an issue, soo... :lol:

My opinion probably isn't fair considering how long I've played with ms stuff, but I'm not sure how it could be any more intuitive than it is? At some point you do need to what you're doing and what you're trying to achieve beyond "running more gooder", but with say Microsquirt, there's just not that much "stuff". You have the basic setup dropdown, then fuel, then spark, then startup/idle, then accel enrich, and finally the advanced (boost control, outputs, that sorta stuff) buttons, it kinda goes in order of how you'd go through the system.

When you get into the more featured systems (ms3/pro/etc) it can get weird, but again if you're playing with one of those things it's somewhat expected that you already know what you're trying to do and have a reasonable idea of how to do it (this goes out the window when dealing with OE ecus, you'd better have a very solid idea of how you're trying to achieve a certain result or you're going to be chasing yourself through all sorts of tables and settings all across the rom). Same with motec or most any other reasonably advanced featured system.

I suppose my question is who is doing it better (in terms of layout, not features.. to a point that's more subjective than layout lol) in yalls opinion? Not going to hurt my feelings, I'll likely be playing with a maxxecu here before long myself, and I've gone back and forth with swapping to a termi-x on the ls swapped car..
 
anyway, bang for the buck and most documented (At least around here) is microsquirt. pretty basic in terms of features.
current pricing for one of those and the long harness is $388. If you buy everything from DIY (why would you do that unless self-loathing is your thing), you're looking at $90 for a gm 3 bar with pigtail, $25 for the air temp sensor, and $30 for the usb to serial adapter.

I personally have been using the auber instruments map sensors for a while now (Several years), they're not completely dirty amazon cheap, but they're much heavier duty than the ones that "explode". (~$40 with pigtail). Amazon usb->serial adapter (or sparkfun, whatever) ~$15 for a decent one. $25 for the air temp sensor and pigtail isn't a bad price from DIY depending on where you want to put it.

So shopping it out puts the whole thing at roughly $500 with the basic required sensors to run. Tuning software is free, but if you buy it and the logging software (To get additional features) you're looking at another $120 or so iirc. It's worth noting that TS and MSLVV are owned by a separate entity and this is where that cost comes from, and somewhat amusingly, TS is used with a variety of systems, not just megasquirt based stuff. It is free to use for most of the basic stuff, so if you're really really tight on your budget, get a license for the datalog viewer and run the free version of tunerstudio (~$40 iirc but it's been a long time)

Maxxecu mini has a little extra, but costs a couple hundred more, you'll still need a air temp sensor to hook up, and it doesn't have a built in wideband, but does offer extra injector outputs and coil outputs. it wouldn't take a whole lot for it's boost control config to be better than what microsquirt offers, but I don't have any direct knowledge of it. The system seems pretty slick, but for the moment "crowd support" around here will be somewhat limited. Probably have great results though from the FB maxxecu group(s)

Speeduino was mentioned, this also uses tunerstudio for tuning, and while I have played with one (that worked fairly well tbh), it was *very* basic with what it did and how it seemed to do it. but it did tune out reasonably well. Reminded me a lot of Ms1 back in the day (but with more ms2-like performance). Not a dig on the project at all- but implementation was not what I'd call 'polished' by any stretch.


Once you decide to make the jump from basic TBH you're likely better off in a non-megasquirt ecu.. the cost for ms3x (unless you build your own-if that's still a thing) generally excludes it from the discussion anymore, I wouldn't run one unless I already had it.. you'll end up dealing with stuff that was largely swept under the rug in the name of interoperability that most of the people still lurking will swear doesn't exist. the db-37 connectors are also annoying.


On the more fully featured ms3 offerings (ultimate, and whatever else), the cost vs features is no longer all that compelling like it was a decade ago. they did remedy some of the lack of IO that came with the first Ms3-pro (which isn't a bad ecu at all if you can get your hands on one these days). Software support seems to have stagnated somewhat, and putting the connectors on the face of the ecu instead of the edge makes installing it frustrating considering the size of the package. the evo is $1600 with a harness, and the ultimate is $1750 with a harness. There are a number of other well featured systems in that price range (and some have more features if not more i/o, like drive by wire support, etc). It should probably go without saying, once you're up in this price range for the ecu, you're likely looking at doing advanced stuff, and it bears looking into several systems at that point. the ms3 pro when it was new had a lot going for it even with it's price(1200 or so iirc), if you're a stone's throw from 2k for the ecu you have a lot of options available to you.
 
linuxman51 said:
you can re-write the config file if you want to move things around, that's what drives the whole thing. Of course if you can sort that out, I'd be willing to posit the rest of it is no longer an issue, soo... :lol:

My opinion probably isn't fair considering how long I've played with ms stuff, but I'm not sure how it could be any more intuitive than it is? At some point you do need to what you're doing and what you're trying to achieve beyond "running more gooder", but with say Microsquirt, there's just not that much "stuff". You have the basic setup dropdown, then fuel, then spark, then startup/idle, then accel enrich, and finally the advanced (boost control, outputs, that sorta stuff) buttons, it kinda goes in order of how you'd go through the system.

I suppose my question is who is doing it better (in terms of layout, not features.. to a point that's more subjective than layout lol) in yalls opinion? Not going to hurt my feelings, I'll likely be playing with a maxxecu here before long myself, and I've gone back and forth with swapping to a termi-x on the ls swapped car..
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I swear there was a way to reconfigure the layout when you're starting a new project. But I can't for the life of me remember out how.

I've used older versions of Haltec and Motec software (like when the m400 was a big thing), and they were both very logically laid out for me.
Engine parameters (timing order, offsets, etc) were in one drop down, sensors in a drop down, all fuel related settings were in another, timing another, and then there were math and data drop downs.
Motec's setup for home and sync are extremely intuitive to use.

My experience with TS: Injector size and settings, fuel tables, and TPS are all in difference areas. Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy?

That being said, I'm still all for microsquirt as being a great option for simple installs.
TBs understanding of the system and autotune alone is enough to make it worth all the trade offs.
 
The microsquirt only has 2 injector outputs, so I guess half your fuel is going to be injected off-cycle. Seems crazy to me. What are the consequences of that? The maxxecu street look very nice, but what about knock control?
 
sloopy said:
The microsquirt only has 2 injector outputs, so I guess half your fuel is going to be injected off-cycle. Seems crazy to me. What are the consequences of that? The maxxecu street look very nice, but what about knock control?
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Stock LH squirts all injectors at the same time. Batch fire fuel and ignition isn't that big of a deal. It just forces you to have somewhat accurate injector data to start with... or you have to do a lot of tuning if you swap to injectors with a different dead time.
 
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